Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen From: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen) Newsgroups: misc.handicap Subject: Re: CANES VERSUS DOGS Message-ID: <15304@bunker.UUCP> Date: 31 Oct 90 03:06:30 GMT Sender: wtm@bunker.UUCP Reply-To: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org Distribution: misc Organization: FidoNet node 1:203/11 - S.I.R.E.N. NET-MAIL, Sacramento CA Lines: 137 Approved: wtm@bunker.UUCP Index Number: 11422 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] DAVID ANDREWS> Lately there has been a lot of talk on this echo about canes DAVID ANDREWS> versus dogs. I think they are both a tool and the person DAVID ANDREWS> should use what is comfortable. I don't believe anyone in this echo would would disagree with you on that. DAVID ANDREWS> However, this echo seems to have a large number of dog users DAVID ANDREWS> and I would like to say a couple of things about the cane, DAVID ANDREWS> which have occurred to me. Yes and the tone of your message has a slightly defensive taint, which might make some think you have some personal resentment towards dog users. DAVID ANDREWS> First, I have known some dog users, who went to a dog because DAVID ANDREWS> they weren't comfortable using a cane. In general, this is DAVID ANDREWS> because they did not have good training. Well, my friend, I do not find this a very plausiable or likely explanation of why very many people become dog users and it doesn't ring true. If you know anything about using a Guide Dog or Guide Dog schools, you should well know that a person who is a poor cane traveler and does not have good mobility is not going to be a good dog user and in most cases, will not even get into a dog school unless he or she has some kind of special clout. Your implication that a poor cane traveler can find easier going by becoming a dog user is just plain false. Remember David, the dogs do not take us traveling at their whim, we must make the dogs take us where we want to go, just as you must point your long cane in the directions you wish to travel. The fact of the matter is, that one had better already have good mobility skills if they wish to use a guide dog. The Guide Dog is not mean't for the person with lesser mobility as your tone implies, it is for the person that wishes greater and faster mobility. DAVID ANDREWS> They then go to a dog school and receive 4 to 8 weeks of DAVID ANDREWS> intensive training and can use it okay. They then think the DAVID ANDREWS> the dog is better. I think my friend,that you have got that a bit backwards as well. I would venture to tell you that dog users make a decision that a dog may be better suited to their lifestyles before they go to dog school, not when they get there. It is why we go in the first place. One must develope more of a sense of traveling responsibility than ever, not less! One must learn a whole new "Traveling language" and how to use their feet in the proper position, how to be aware when the guide dog begins to behave in certain manners, how to know when the dog is wrong from when the dog user is wrong, to be aware that a dangerous or fatal traveling mistake can cost both the person and the dog. It also requires that the dog user know that the Guide Dog relies just as much on the person as the person does on the dog. Using a Guide Dog requires the mobility skills needed to use a cane, plus more. So, the concept that going to a Guide Dog is what to do to find a more comfortable or easier way to travel for those with inadequate cane skill, is ludicrous. I am sorry, but you are just plain wrong. DAVID ANDREWS> I think that using a cane involves having confidence in DAVID ANDREWS> yourself and when using a dog, you put your confidence and DAVID ANDREWS> trust in the dog. David, I would refer you back to my above paragraph. This comment tells me that you really have very little understanding of what using a Guide Dog is all about and the reality of what using a Guide Dog requires. If you don't think using a Guide Dog requires self confidence in your own personal ability then you had better think again. You learn to trust your dog because you have confidence that you can make your dog take you where you need to go safely! The dog doesn't just do all the work for the blind person. Using a dog requires a constant partnership and the proper commands from the person as to which direction to go, when to go, and so much more. It is work, you don't just grab onto the harness and the dog does all the work! A person not confident in using a cane is not going to be any more confident with a dog and probably will not even make it through the school training. So, I am sorry, but your suggestion that the dog user puts all of her trust and confidence in the dog while the cane user puts it into him or herself, just doesn't wash either. It takes a considerable amount of self confidence to use a dog. I really think you need to become better informed about Guide Dog use and training because a lot of what you say and imply just is not true. DAVID ANDREWS> Using a cane is 90 percent confidence and ten percent DAVID ANDREWS> technigue in my opinion. With better training, many more DAVID ANDREWS> people could use a cane successfully. And with this comment, you again imply that Guide Dogs are for those persons who cannot use a long cane successfully or comfortably and this totally goes against the grain of the reality, for all of the reasons I have stated above. As for me, before I got my dog, as I believe you already know and so do others here, I was a cane traveler myself. In fact, I was not only a good cane traveler, in the past year, before switching to a dog, I became nothing short of an excellent cane traveler. I am still able to go anywhere I wish to go using a long cane and do use it still, when going to places I will not bring my dog, such as loud rock concerts. I will bet I use a long cane as well as you or anyone on this echo. So, this idea that we go to dogs because they are easier to use than long canes or because we are not good cane users is baloney. In fact, I would go out on a limb and say that it is probable that every dog user in this echo was probably quite a very good cane traveler before they became dog users. My last O and M instructor was Gina Woods at the Sacramento Society for the Blind and I am sure she will speak highly of my ability using a long cane! There are many reasons I switched to a dog, but none of them had thing to do with discomfort or lack or skill using a long cane or lack of confidence in myself. That is a bunch of phooey. In fact, many of the dog schools, such as mine, require that a person have pretty good cane skills before they can even get into the program. This is not to say there aren't any bad dog users or exceptions to the rule, because there is and there are. But all in all, I must take exception to your comments and implications because they are ill informed and some just plain untrue. As for the long cane itself. There is absolutely nothing wrong at all, in deciding that the cane is more than adequate for a persons lifestyle. It is still a symbol and tool for independence and the cane user is no lesser nor more a better traveler than a dog traveler. We all have different skills and abilities irregardless of whether we are dog or cane travelers. As I said, I am very skilled with my long cane and I have not tossed it out because I have become a dog user. But I do think your message was posted more out of unnecessary defensiveness than from an "informed" point of view on what using a Guide Dog properly, is really all about. I see no reason for a cane user to feel defensive at all. It is not a lesser way to travel, it is just different! I hope my brother and sister dog users in this echo, who have been dog users much longer than I, will feel that I expressed what using a dog is all about, adequately. I felt that your post required a response. Keepin' the faith! . Vixen -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Vixen Internet: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org