Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!ox.com!yale!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren) Newsgroups: misc.handicap Subject: Re: CANES VERSUS DOGS Message-ID: <15351@bunker.UUCP> Date: 2 Nov 90 04:02:23 GMT Sender: wtm@bunker.UUCP Reply-To: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org Distribution: misc Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA Lines: 163 Approved: wtm@bunker.UUCP Index Number: 11468 [This is from the Blink Talk Conference] V> DAVID ANDREWS> First, I have known some dog users, who went to a dog V> because V> DAVID ANDREWS> they weren't comfortable using a cane. In general, this is V> DAVID ANDREWS> because they did not have good training. V> V> Well, my friend, I do not find this a very plausiable or likely V> explanation V> of why very many people become dog users and it doesn't ring true. If you V> know anything about using a Guide Dog or Guide Dog schools, you should V> well V> know that a person who is a poor cane traveler and does not have good V> mobility is not going to be a good dog user and in most cases, will not V> even get into a dog school unless he or she has some kind of special V> clout. V> Your implication that a poor cane traveler can find easier going by V> becoming V> a dog user is just plain false. Vixen, that is not completely true. The better cane traveler will make a better dog traveler. However, to say that a poor cane traveler will not make a good guide dog user is false, and that they will not get into guidedog school is also false. My wife admits that she was nota good cane traveler, but she was a good guidedog traveler. Naturally she could have been a better traveler if she was a better cane traveler. V> Remember David, the dogs do not take us traveling at their whim, we must V> make V> the dogs take us where we want to go, just as you must point your long V> cane V> in the directions you wish to travel. AAgain, Vixen, this is not quite true as you will find out when you gain experience with your dog. One example is one time my wife and I got off a bus at a rest stop, and it came time to get back on the bus, we did not know whitch way to go. The dog took us back to the bus we got off of, out of about ten busses. My cane could not have done that for us. V> had better already have good mobility skills if they wish to use a guide V> V> DAVID ANDREWS> yourself and when using a dog, you put your confidence and V> DAVID ANDREWS> trust in the dog. V> V> David, I would refer you back to my above paragraph. This comment tells me V> that you really have very little understanding of what using a Guide Dog V> is V> all about and the reality of what using a Guide Dog requires. If you don't V> think using a Guide Dog requires self confidence in your own personal V> ability V> then you had better think again. You learn to trust your dog because you V> have V> confidence that you can make your dog take you where you need to go V> safely! V> V> The dog doesn't just do all the work for the blind person. Using a dog V> requires a constant partnership and the proper commands from the person as V> to which direction to go, when to go, and so much more. It is work, you V> don't just grab onto the harness and the dog does all the work! A person V> not V> confident in using a cane is not going to be any more confident with a dog V> and probably will not even make it through the school training. So, I am V> sorry, but your suggestion that the dog user puts all of her trust and V> confidence in the dog while the cane user puts it into him or herself, V> just V> doesn't wash either. It takes a considerable amount of self confidence to V> use a dog. I really think you need to become better informed about Guide V> Dog V> use and training because a lot of what you say and imply just is not true When you get more experience with using a dog, I think that you will change your views. To say that a person that has no confidence in a cane can't make with a dog is hog wash. The main reason I went to get a dog, was while I had been a good cane user, I was getting to be chicken about traveling around, and I regained my self confidence in using a dog. AFter I did this, I was able to use a cane again with out any problem. btw a guidedog user, has to put a lot of confidence in his or her dog, or It will not work. True you have to know where you are going, but when obstacles get in your way, you have to believe that your dog will take you around them. V> DAVID ANDREWS> Using a cane is 90 percent confidence and ten percent V> DAVID ANDREWS> technigue in my opinion. With better training, many more V> DAVID ANDREWS> people could use a cane successfully. V> V> And with this comment, you again imply that Guide Dogs are for those V> persons V> who cannot use a long cane successfully or comfortably and this totally V> goes V> against the grain of the reality, for all of the reasons I have stated V> above. To contridict that, I would have to repeating. V> As for me, before I got my dog, as I believe you already know and so do V> others V> here, I was a cane traveler myself. In fact, I was not only a good cane V> traveler, in the past year, before switching to a dog, I became nothing V> short V> of an excellent cane traveler. I am still able to go anywhere I wish to go V> using a long cane and do use it still, when going to places I will not V> bring V> my dog, such as loud rock concerts. I will bet I use a long cane as well V> as you or anyone on this echo. So, this idea that we go to dogs because V> they V> are easier to use than long canes or because we are not good cane users is V> baloney. In fact, I would go out on a limb and say that it is probable V> that V> every dog user in this echo was probably quite a very good cane traveler V> before they became dog users. Don't get too far out on that limb unless you have a net below you, or make sure that is a good strong limb. V> the Sacramento Society for the Blind and I am sure she will speak highly V> of V> my ability using a long cane! I don't think that there is any one on here who doubts your cane traveling ability. Remember, that along with your cane traveling ability, you do have some sight. If you can read a computer screen, your little vision must help you some. There is a difference between your situation and a totally blind person. When I was younger, I had enough sight to see objects, and not enough to read any sort of print, but I did not realize what a difference that little of sight made untill I lost it. V> comments and implications because they are ill informed and some just V> plain V> untrue. Every one has a right to different opinion, but to say someone else's opinion is untrue, is I think going a little far. V> As for the long cane itself. There is absolutely nothing wrong at all, in V> deciding that the cane is more than adequate for a persons lifestyle. It V> is V> still a symbol and tool for independence and the cane user is no lesser V> nor V> more a better traveler than a dog traveler. We all have different skills V> and V> abilities irregardless of whether we are dog or cane travelers. Vixen, there we agree. V> in this echo, who have been dog users much longer than I, will feel that I V> expressed what using a dog is all about, adequately. I felt that your post V> required a response. As I previously said, I think that your views will change as you learn more about using a guidedog a little longer. Walter -- Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org