Xref: utzoo sci.bio:3793 sci.chem:2364 sci.physics:15184 sci.misc:4526 Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!att!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ncar!boulder!eddy From: eddy@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Sean Eddy) Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.chem,sci.physics,sci.misc Subject: Re: Osmosis - the cause at the molecular level. Message-ID: <29046@boulder.Colorado.EDU> Date: 1 Nov 90 14:28:25 GMT References: <1990Oct28.115303.7221@newcastle.ac.uk> <4396@pkmab.se> Sender: news@boulder.Colorado.EDU Reply-To: eddy@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Sean Eddy) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 48 Nntp-Posting-Host: beagle.colorado.edu >Why does the concentrations tend to even out? There will always be a lot >of water molecules that are passing through the membrane in both directions, >since nothing is stopping them from doing so. However, on the side with >higher salt concentration, there will be fewer water molecules (and more >salt ions) adjacent to a given membrane surface area, and therefore a >slightly lower flow of water from that side to the other than in the other >direction. Indeed, that's the explanation I was taught, and in turn taught to undergrads here at Boulder. It was intellectually satisfying to me until a couple of weeks ago, when my complacency was thrashed by a fellow grad student. We started arguing, and reading, and arguing some more, and pretty soon the debate was spreading through the department... but we're just a bunch o' biologists, so I'll relate the problem to you guys. Osmosis is a colligative property. That is, osmotic pressure is dependent on the *number* of particles in solution -- *not* their size, mass, etc. This is a highly useful property, of course; we can measure the molecular weights of things by finding the osmotic pressure of (and hence the number of particles in) a given weight of stuff. But trying to figure out how osmotic pressure isn't affected by the size of the solute is the problem. Let me make it clearer: the osmotic pressure of a DNA solution, avg. MW say 10^8, length of the molecules damn near in the visible range, is the *same* osmotic pressure as, say, a sugar solution of the same concentration. I *cannot* rationalize this in my brain using the "more solute, proportionally less access to membrane for solvent" model. Big molecules would obscure more of the membrane. (Furthermore, cut those DNA molecules in half... now they have twice the osmotic pressure. Yeah, right :) ) See my problem? P-chem texts have been unhelpful and generally quite circular in their logic on this point, it's seemed ("it just *is*"). What is the detailed rationale for osmotic pressure being dependent upon only the number of solute molecules, not their size, shape, and mass? - Sean Eddy - Dept. of Molecular, Cellular, Developmental Biology - U. of Colorado at Boulder - eddy@boulder.colorado.edu