Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mib@geech.ai.mit.edu (Michael I. Bushnell) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Validity of Baptism (Was Re: In Communion with Rome?) Message-ID: Date: 28 Oct 90 08:32:02 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: /home/fsf/mib/.organization Lines: 42 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article mangoe@mimsy.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes: David Wagner writes: >Lutherans (presumably almost all of us) recognize the validity of any >baptism in which >1. Water is applied to the individual. >2. The Baptism is performed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, > and of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19). Last time I checked, there is also the requirement that the minister be a christian, i.e., baptized. Though I already followed up to this, I think I ought to be more precise. The Church through the ages, ever since the end of the Donatist controversy made it quite clear that rebaptism needs to be avoided, has required that the definition of baptism be very broad. In addition to the two requirements above a third is usually added: that the baptism be inteded as the sacrament. For example, an "acted out" baptism in a play or movie is not the sacrament, despite the use of water and the Trinitarian formula. Most churches have, for reasons of order, additional guidelines about baptism. Presbyterians emphasize its administration by an ordained minister and performance in front of the entire congregation as a part of worship. Most denominations emphasize its administration by the ordained, which are, of course, baptized. But baptisms performed outside the normal rules for a group are rarely considered invalid simply for that reason. With the exception of the LDS, I know of no such requirement in any major denomination. To sum up, while I'm sure the Episcopal church requires baptisms to be performed by a priest ordained by a bishop in the apostolic succession, I'm also sure that they accept as valid baptisms even those administered by non-christians. -- Michael I. Bushnell \ This above all; to thine own self be true LIBERTE, EGALITE, FRATERNITE \ And it must follow, as the night the day, mike@unmvax.cs.unm.edu /\ Thou canst not be false to any man. CARPE DIEM / \ Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!