Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!wuarchive!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Discipleship Message-ID: Date: 28 Oct 90 08:34:03 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or. Lines: 77 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: >I recently began reading John F. MacArthur's book _The Gospel According >to Jesus_. In there, I found the following on page 30. >"James M. Boice, in his book, "Christ's Call to Discipleship", writes >with insight about the salvation/discipleship dichotomy, which he >frankly describes as "defective theology": > "This theology separates faith from discipleship and grace from > obedience. It teaches that Jesus can be received as one's Savior > without being received as one's Lord. ...(good stuff deleted for bandwith's sake) >"The call to Calvary must be recognized for what it is: a call to >discipleship under the lordship of Jesus Christ. To respond to that >call is to become a believer. Anything less is simply unbelief." >At this point MacArthur has a footnote that says, >"Jesus' Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20 does not talk about making >believers in distinction to disciples. "Make disciples...baptizing >them" implies that every new believer is a disciple, for all Christians >are to be baptized (Acts 2:38), not just those who go on to some deeper >level of commitment." >I wondered how others see this. Do you believe that we only need to >accept Jesus as Savior and that at some future point we accept His >Lordship? Do you see it as necessary to count all the costs that every >will be required to be a disciple before you can be saved? What if you >don't know all the costs at that point in time--are not saved? Is there >a difference in the costs of discipleship between prosperity and >persecution that affects the presentation of the Gospel? What is the >Gospel that we are to preach and teach? Well, it sounds to me like this book is probably on the right track. The Gospel has been defined as the "good news that Christ has come in the flesh" (including of course his death and resurrection). Would this news not then include what he taught while on this earth? Surely we should apply his teachings in our lives. The sermon on the mount, probably the greatest sermon on good works ever given, is rather specific about the need to do more than say, "Lord, Lord." Many who do this will be told, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Mat 7:21-23) If we hear his word and do not *do* it, we are building our house on the sand, not the rock. (Mat 7:24-27) We are required to build on the rock of Christ and to do so means following his teachings. I think some Christians misunderstand a lot of Paul's statements comparing grace and "works." In every case I can think of where Paul makes such a comparison he is talking about works of the Law of Moses. He is not denigrating love, honesty, almsgiving etc, in fact he praises these qualities. Rather the passages in question say that salvation is not by the Law of Moses but by the grace of Christ. The grace of Christ will be given to disciples, not those who pay lip service to him. It is only for those who *do* the will of his father in heaven. (Mat 7:21 again, emphasis mine) Too many people think "salvation by grace" means just leave it all up to Jesus. Rather I am convinced it means follow Jesus, do as he teaches and his grace will be given to us. In the words of the Book of Mormon he came to save us *from* our sins, not *in* our sins (emphasis mine). Through his grace we can be freed from our sins so that not only are we forgiven but we can avoid new sins. What about the person who doesn't know the entire cost at first? As Gene and I have discussed by email, "believe" in the New Testament usually means far more than an intellectual acceptance, it implies a committment. Sometimes I think we are expected to commit to discipleship and remain faithful even through unforseen difficulties. He never promised any lack of difficulties, only the strength to meet those difficulties to His satisfaction. If we fully commit ourselves to Him we can keep that committment which is what he requires. Yes, discipleship is required.