Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!porthos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sorry folks, it's NOT all relative. Message-ID: Date: 2 Nov 90 08:05:12 GMT Sender: hedrick@porthos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of NC at Charlotte Lines: 89 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu (Joy Haftel) writes: > In article , > davidh@tektronix.tek.com (David L Hatcher) says: > > > The experience of God living with in ones soul reaches way beyond > >any defination as defined by man. Which is what you gave. I'm much > >more interested in the religious experience of God as God Himself > >is manifested with in the soul of man as the place to examine and > >compare religious truths. > I believe that here, you are speaking of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. While the Holy Spirit reaches everyone in some way or another, only those who have salvation are permanently indwelled by the Holy Spirit. THus, those who subscribe to Islam, Judiasm, Hinduism, etc. and therby do not have salvation do not have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Thus, since there is no permanent manifestation of the Holy Spirit in people who have rejected salvation, there can be no comparison. Many people who were followers of Islam, Judiasm, etc. said that they performed their religion simply as a function of their lifestyle. It was expected that they perform mechanical acts such as facing in a certain direction while praying, etc. They say that they felt practically no connection to God, that is, until they became Christians and were indwelled by the Spirit. > that one was a feeling of the presence of God. I'm inclined to be > skeptical about it; I'd far rather use logical means of building my > faith because logic seems more reliable than emotions. WHile emotions cannot govern in developing faith, you have to be careful about using logic as a basis for faith. After all, by definition, faith in God defies the logic of man. The Bible says that the wisdom of God is foolishness to man. For example, Jesus said, (in John (?)) "If you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can say to that tree, 'get up, and run into the sea,' and the tree will uproot itself and run into the sea." Now, by human standards, it is not logical to believe that a tree will uproot itself and run into the sea just because you believe that God will grant such a request. Further, many religions, and Islam in particular, use logic as a means of explaining their faith and drawing others to their religion. I've lived with Islamic people for nearly five years (and of them has become a Christian, praise God!) and over and over again, I have heard things like "Islam explained medical facts that no one knew during the time of the Koran. So, isn't it logical to follow a religion that knew things like this?" To which I reply, "you can have 10 PHD's and still not make it to Heaven." "The devil has an amazing amount of knowledge, but he's not going to make it Heaven." >Faith is really > the assumptions you make to build your logic on, and what is faith based on? > Emotions? Guidance from God? I truly do not know, but I believe it is > (in the case of Christianity) guided by God. I certainly agree that faith is not based on emotions, but is instead based on guidance from God. Yet, faith is not assumption. If you only assume that your faith in God will prove you with whatever you request, then you need to do an inventory of your faith. Faith is not just assuming or not just believing, but instead faith is KNOWING. Yet, it is important that we have faith in God, not faith in faith. > I thus believe that > while other religions may partially touch God, they are also being deceived > by Satan who can manufacture religious emotions in people. > Exactly. As I mentioned above, people who have converted from other religions did not have a true relationship to God, yet they did have "religious" emotions which often convinced them that they could not leave their old religion. As one man told me "I felt something pulling at me from inside. Something was missing inside of me and I just couldn't find it. Yet, I went so long without Jesus because my mind just wouldn't let go of me." > > > > David Hatcher > > Joy Haftel "Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh > JKH107@PSUVM in the morning." --Psalms Elizabeth Tallant