Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!porthos.rutgers.edu!christian From: timh@ide.com (Tim Hoogasian) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sorry folks, it's NOT all relative. Message-ID: Date: 2 Nov 90 09:04:02 GMT Sender: hedrick@porthos.rutgers.edu Organization: IDE, San Francisco Lines: 82 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article davidh@tektronix.tek.com (David L Hatcher) writes: > Your listings of the various aspects of Hinduism and Buddhism are >not from where I'd compare religions. well, given that Christianity is not a "religion", but a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, then Christianity cannot be "compared" as a "religion", by your terms. > The experience of God living with in ones soul reaches way beyond >any defination as defined by man. true enough. >Which is what you gave. says who? you? are you God, that you have *decreed* that the Bible is NOT the Word of God, and hence everything else is also "valid"? sounds like you've already decided in your own mind that everything is relative. which, according to Scripture, is false. it's like this, David. if i tell you that carrots are the only way to get nutrition, then you (i'm sure) can prove that's false. however, in the question of the Bible being the Word of God, there's no such question. it's either "true" or "false". if it's true, then there's no room for any other "path" to God. all religions can't be "true." they're mutually exclusive - Christianity certainly is exclusive of worldly "religions." (tell me, if *men* authored the Bible, then why should it be so exclusive of everything else? that's hardly characteristic of worldly religions...) > It's looking at God in people from the exact opposite pole from which >you presented in your text. you're making it again out to be all relative. so, you feel that all religions are equally valid, right? well, what's the relevence, then, of your original question? why should it matter what anyone's particular "experience" with God is? > To look at the outer definitions is not looking at God as God is known >and experienced from the soul opened to God. whose "outer" definitions, dave? again, your bias against the possibility that the Bible was authored by God, is showing flagrantly. how do you "know" the things you say are "true", if it's all relative anyway? that's not internally consistent - it doesn't wash. >What are their [non-Christians'] fruits? this has little to no bearing on the issue, david. there are many atheists who are "moral" people. do they also "know God", by their fruits, and will they, who have boldly denied His very existence, also be brought into Heaven? > Tell me about religion as experienced in God, not religion as >defined by man. (chuckle) "religion" IS defined by mankind, david. religion is man's attempt to find God, on man's terms, not God's. > If a Christian mystic has an experience which can be > phenomenologically compared with a Zen experience, > does it matter that the Christian in fact believes > he is personally united with God and the Zen-man > interprets his experience as Sunyata or the Void > being aware of itself? If Christianity's tenet is true, that Christ *alone* saves, exclusive of ANY other "path to God", then it matters *vitally*, david. if you work from the beginning assumption that there are no absolutes (which is a ridiculous thing to say, since that statement itself is absolutist!) then the Zen question is valid. However, if you believe there *are* absolutes set down by God, which Christianity maintains, then the Zen question is rubbish. By Christianity's very nature, it cannot be "reconciled" with any worldly religion. It is *exclusive* of all others. you're wasting your time, david, trying to mix water and oil. they just won't mix. they can't. -- Tim | ARPA: timh@ide.com Hoogasian | UUCP: sun!ide!timh (415) 543-0900 =============================================================================== #define DISCLAIMER "Are you nuts? I don't represent anyone, let alone myself!"