Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!dmshq!com50!craig
From: craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Fool
Message-ID: <1990Nov8.133951.7304@com50.c2s.mn.org>
Date: 8 Nov 90 13:39:51 GMT
References: <18667@rpp386.cactus.org> <1990Nov2.191240.4568@lavaca.uh.edu> <18684@rpp386.cactus.org> <1990Nov3.193714.4223@lavaca.uh.edu> <1990Nov4.031734.19127@com50.c2s.mn.org> <284@crucible.UUCP> <1990Nov6.030346.11113@com50.c2s.mn.org> <288@crucible.UUCP>
Organization: Com Squared Systems, Inc.
Lines: 66

In article <288@crucible.UUCP> al@crucible.UUCP (Al Evans) writes:
>In article <1990Nov6.030346.11113@com50.c2s.mn.org> craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson) writes:
>
>>And the problem is that there is no higher authority to which
>>the matter could be passed for judgement.  No Solomon. No Bible. No Magna
>>Carta.  No Constitution.  Just some references to Usenet Guidelines.  The
>>guidelines may be a start.  But the reason legislators attach punishments to
>>laws that are passed is that they realize that not everyone is going to be
>>reasonable all of the time.
>
>I'm not at all certain you intended to imply what I thought I saw:-)
>But if you're saying you believe there should be some higher structure,
>some "organization" governing the net, then I disagree. I'd rather filter
>through 4 megs a day of utter drivel than to lose the only "working"
>anarchy I've ever heard of. 

The Usenet is NOT an anarchy.  No matter how many times you click your heels
and say it, the Usenet is not an anarchy.  The alt.* network comes closer to
being an anarchy, but even there, there are guidelines being formulated and
"enforced".  The Usenet has even more rules and regulations and policies and
procedures and guidelines.  And they are remarkably well observed by the vast
majority of the users of the network.  The closest the Usenet gets to anarchy
is when someone violates a guideline and everyone comes out of the woodwork to
beat them back into submission to those guidelines.  This mob rule is usually
quite effective.  However, it is not very efficient in terms of time and money.
It can take a long time to resolve the conflict which translates to megabytes
of data moving amonst the nodes.  These megabytes when multiplied by the number
of nodes are actually gigabytes of data being stored and forwarded.

I guess the point that I am trying to make here, is that, I don't believe that
this society can advance given the inefficiencies.  If it doesn't advance, it
will peak (has peaked?).  And then, like all great societies before it, it will
decline.  The decline will not nessesarily be precipitated by only internal
forces.  This society operates within a larger society which can, and has, had
impact on the smaller group.

>And I'm *certain* I wouldn't want everybody
>on the net to be "reasonable" all the time. I'd rather be exposed to some
>daily quota of utter raving lunatics -- at least it helps me to firm up
>my own views (which are, of course, always reasonable:-)

Do not confuse my ramblings with a call for sanity.  I also believe that there
should be groups that can provide a safety valve against a build up of
reasonableness.  And there are groups and networks for this.  I feel that BIFF
is funny and harmless.  And I know where to go when I need a dose of BIFF.  But
I don't want BIFF and his clones erupting all over.

>The net is the first human society in which everybody has the same quality
>of weapons -- which is to say, none at all. I think the introduction of
>ANY "weapon" -- even a legislative or executive authority -- would be,
>at best, an attempt to stuff worms back into the can. Failing *new*
>ideas, I suspect ostracism is the only workable technique of enforcing
>any standards of behavior.
>					--Al Evans--

I am afraid that I must disagree about the weapons being equal.  Being several
modem connections away from the Internet backbone, my firing rate is at musket
level while those on the backbone have a machine gun rate.

With respect to authority, there IS some authority in the guidelines and the
adherence most sites give to them.  But it is not sufficient to prevent the
worst violators of the guidelines from causing a lot of disruptions.  Rules and
laws really only exist when they prevent you from doing something you want to
do.

/craig