Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mcsun!ukc!dcl-cs!aber-cs!athene!pcg From: pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) Newsgroups: comp.sys.m88k Subject: Re: Tektronix shutdown & move away from 88k's?? (really, Apple rumor) Message-ID: Date: 7 Nov 90 17:15:25 GMT References: <1990Oct19.120218.9450@canterbury.ac.nz> <15497@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1990Oct31.180726.18797@unx.sas.com> <42775@mips.mips.COM> Sender: pcg@aber-cs.UUCP Organization: Coleg Prifysgol Cymru Lines: 93 Nntp-Posting-Host: odin In-reply-to: mash@mips.COM's message of 5 Nov 90 19:59:31 GMT On 5 Nov 90 19:59:31 GMT, mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) said: mash> In article <1990Oct31.180726.18797@unx.sas.com> mash> massengi@unx.sas.com (Darrell Massengill) writes: massengi> The Oct. 15 Computerworld (page 6) indicates that Apple is massengi> using the new 88110 chip in a new Macintosh that is due out massengi> early next year. This could be a sign that Apple will move massengi> toward the 88000 architecture in general. mash> There has been discussion elsewhere on the unreliability of such rumors. mash> This is a perfect example of vague rumor-mongering. So if Computerworld says 'Apple may well have an 88k based MacIntosh by 2Q 91' it is a rumour, if Apple were to say that it would not be? Ahem, are we naive enough to believe a manufacturer more than an independent source? As to me, I disbelieve everybody until proven otherwise... mash> Let's try to convert it into something specific, so that on some mash> date, one can either say "it happened, or it didn't". Like the R6000 chip? In another article in this same newgroup you comment wisely on how many illusions and delusions one can have in making product announcements. A bird in hand... I had caught a fish this bigggggggggggggggggggg... :-). Let's say that vaporware is the manufacturer's way of doing rumour mongering. mash> However, if it doesn't happen, will people agree that speculative mash> rumor-columns in such magazines are poor sources as facts to back mash> up arguments? :-) Also manufacturrer's announcements :-). Even after the product is delivered -- for example VUPS ratings. massengi> And speaking of rumors - is there any truth to DEC moving away massengi> from MIPS and toward their own architecture? If so, MIPS massengi> should worry. mash> I believe that this has been taken care of in the (unfortunate) mash> recent sequence of postings. Let's see if I can summarize them like this: 1) I ask confirmation for a possibly fault recollection that Byte have reported that BIT is no longer interested in developing the R6000 because of problems that delay the chip so much that it is no longer a good bet. 2) Myself and other almost immediately correct this to attributing the source not to byte but to PCW and the decision to stop R6000 development to DEC inasmuch they are concerned. 3) Some people from MIPS attack Byte foursquare as an irresponsible magazine, quoting another example in which it had got a rumour wrong (it was indeed factually correct). 3) DEC has never announced any product based on the R6000, but they were officially interested in it. 4) PCW (an UK magazine) quotes "Computer lettergram" and DEC sources to the effect that DEC will not use the R6000 chip in its MIPS based products because it believes that delays in the production of such a chip mean that its window of opportunity will be closed too soon (one or two years) by equivalently fast CMOS chips. Nobody has cared to deny any part of this. 5) MIPS people confirm that they are working very hard with BIT people to overcome unexpected problems in getting working R6000 chips in volume at some high enough frequency (apparently 60Mhz), and that they have a good number of very expensive systems awaiting shipment because of this, and thus a large incentive to stick to R6000 development. 6) DEC officials related to VMS development state that they think of introducing their own VMS oriented RISC architecture. No details are available. 7) DEC officials related to Ultrix development state that they will stick to the MIPS RISC architecture. Full details are available at your nearest DEC sales office for their current products. 8) Nobody can provide any figures on the numbers or values of MIPS based DEC workstations and systems sold so far. I am told by conflicting sources that sales are good/bad. 9) People from MIPS give witty and candid commentary on how approximate (read: rumours) can be statements by major (Motorola) and minor (MIPS) players when it comes to leading edge technology. -- Piercarlo "Peter" Grandi | ARPA: pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Dept of CS, UCW Aberystwyth | UUCP: ...!mcsun!ukc!aber-cs!pcg Penglais, Aberystwyth SY23 3BZ, UK | INET: pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk