Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!clarkson!news From: anthonjw@clutx.clarkson.edu (Jason W. Anthony,,,) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Not another NeXT defector???!!! Message-ID: <1990Nov5.191813.20961@news.clarkson.edu> Date: 5 Nov 90 19:18:13 GMT Sender: news@news.clarkson.edu Distribution: usa Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY Lines: 127 Nntp-Posting-Host: clutx.clarkson.edu From article <1990Nov5.083738.17066@midway.uchicago.edu>, by sado@quads.uchicago.edu (robert anthony sadowski): > In article <1990Nov5.064724.16646@agate.berkeley.edu> knrgroup@garnet.berkeley.edu (Raymond group) writes: >>(pertaining to Symantec Pres. Gordon Eubanks' statement that he will not > develop for the NeXT platform) >> >>First, this statement was made before the September 18th rollout of the >>new NeXTs. Yes, the market for the NeXT looked small before then, with >>only about 7,000 machines sold in a year. However, it was announced on >>Sept. 18th that 15,000 2.0 machines had been sold in the two months >>prior to the public showing of NeXT 2.0. NeXT is gaining momentum in >>both the academic and business world. > > 7,000 + 15,000 + how many have since been sold since then is still not > a significant market share. How many PC's are sold each year ? > Hundreds of thousands. Until I see some significant figures documented > in some well known publication, I will not concede that NeXT is gaining > momentum in the business world. > Well, fair enough. But if you don't think 15,000 orders before the machine is even in production (!) isn't the start of momentum, I hate to think what you thought when the Mac was first rolled out. And besides, the number of PC's sold each year also greatly outpaces the number of Macs sold. >>Secondly, the statement that "NeXT doesn't make it easy for you to develop >>for that platform" seems incredibly uninformed. The NeXT is the easiest >>and most powerful development platform around, period. > > I knew someone was going to single this statement out. I didn't think > I would have to qualify it with the statement that Eubanks is most > probably referring to NeXT's developer support, not the wonderful and > powerful interface builder. > I have no first-hand expereince here, but I do know NeXT offers a Registered Developer's Program, which means you can get training from NeXT, 30% discounts on NeXT computers, "co-marketing opportunities", technical support via e-mail, etc. Besides, one of the reasons Apple has so much support is that it is tedious to program the Mac. If I had to choose between support and ease of programming, well, that's an easy choice! >>Programmers who've used >>both NeXT and Mac development tools (MacApps, Prototyper, Think C) >>are almost unanimous in their strong preference for the NeXT. > > Prove it. Figures please. > >>And they end up with >>nicer user interfaces to boot (because of NeXT's Interface Builder). > > Opinion. This point could be debated in this forum for hours. > True. (But I agree :-) >>Symantec's "resources are committed to other players." Lotus, Ashton-Tate, >>WordPerfect, et al, are ignoring Symantec's lead. Symantec needs to >>re-examine the NeXT market, or it will miss the boat completely. > > I must admit, I took this statement slightly out of context. These > so-called "other players" means Windows. Given the choice between devloping > for an environment that had a base of 300,000 the day it shipped and one > that had (more than?) 22,000 which would you choose ? > Of course, by this logic, Symmantic would be more concerned with the PC market than the Mac market. There are (sadly, IMHO) a lot more PC's than Mac's out there. I think it is fair to say Symantec does more in the Mac market than the PC. >>Take words >>from Symantec and Microsoft (makers of OS/2, a competitor of NeXTStep) >>with a large grain of salt. These companies see NeXT as a threat. > > I'll take words from Symantec, the leading developer of utilities for the > Mac and if not the leader, number #2 in development environments, and > Microsoft, the unquestionable landslide leader in the most used business > apps (word p/spreadsheets) over that of Lotus, Ashton-Tate, and WP, three > industry giants who have done absolutely dismal ports of their PC apps to > a graphical environment. It goes both ways. You attack the leaders by > virtue of their position. > Hmmm.... isn't Symantec the company who refuses to make a C++ compiler because C++ is "stupid"? I heard this from someone on the net who talked to someone at Symantec (Rich?), so maybe it's not true, but why is Symantec so far behind the ball here? Apple has said straight-out that C++ is the language of Mac's future. MPW C++ has been around for a while. Is Symantec not "keeping up with times"? And take a look at history here a bit. Both Lotus and WordPerfect missed the Mac boat when it started, because they were in the PC market and didn't give Mac enough credit. Now Symantec is in a similar position they were, except we're talking Mac's and NeXT's here. Notice Lotus and WordPerfect are learning from their mistakes. Guess Symantec is about to make there's. >> >>NeXT has recruited VARs and is now entering the direct marketing game. > > OK, maybe I'm wrong. But tell me who they are. > >>I've read West of Eden and Odyssey. The picture they paint of Jobs is a >>immature man lacking what it takes to make it in a business world >>dominated by men in blue suits. However, they also paint Jobs as a >>technological visionary, a man who places innovation and quality above >>the bottom line. He was the soul of the Mac. And I think Sculley and >>the author of West of Eden would wholeheartedly agree. > > I said the guy was great and everything. I agree wholeheartedly with what you > say. My point still is that the business world is dominated by men in blue > suits. Find someone to disagree with this statement. And then apply it > to your own. 8^) That's funny. Isn't Apple the company where people run around in jeans and T-shirts? Isn't it the company where their first computer came from a kid in a garage? Maybe one of Apple's problems is too many people are changing clothes..... 8^) > > -rs __________________________________________________________________ Jason W. Anthony anthonjw@clutx.clarkson.edu //// /| Computer Engineering / / | Clarkson University, Potsdam N.Y. / / /--| ____________________________________________________ ///. / |.