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From: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Not another NeXT defector???!!!
Message-ID: <2927@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM>
Date: 10 Nov 90 01:06:20 GMT
References: <1990Nov7.230807.17914@agate.berkeley.edu> <911@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> <2924@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> <1990Nov9.230811.20858@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: 3Com Corp., Mt. View, CA
Lines: 73

In article <1990Nov9.230811.20858@agate.berkeley.edu> knrgroup@garnet.berkeley.edu (Raymond group) writes:
>ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodyear) writes:
>>No matter what you do, eventually somewhere along the line if you "own"
>>the machine, you're going to have to get down & dirty in the OS (Unix)
>>of the NeXT.
>
>So, have you owned a NeXT?  (and I mean for personal use and not as a node
>in a network)  I ask because several people have voiced their opinions
>based on their experience with "Unix boxes" other than the NeXT.  The NeXT
>is not a typical Unix box. It hides Unix from the user, whereas other
>Unix boxes just put windows around Unix command-lines for the most part.
	
	Raymond, wake up and smell the coffee, come out from behind the
	workstation and notice that there are people around you that are
	not going to comprehend using Unix, even with a Next front end
	on it. And though I have seen and not used the Next extensively,
	there are going to be times that you are going to have to know
	what in the world Unix is all about to make use of the machine
	on a day to day basis should you own one. Networked or not..

>Do you ever have to mess with the guts of a Mac OS?  If so, is this any
>easier than messing with the guts of Unix?  Most users don't have to do
>any of this.  If something gets really messed up with the OS, you just
>reload the OS or get some professional software package or an expert to
>take care of the problem for you.  This is true on the Mac as well as the
>NeXT.  I've been a Mac user for 4 years, but I wouldn't have a clue what
>to do if the Mac OS got screwed up.  I don't even know how to access the
>Mac OS.  On the other hand, accessing the NeXT's OS is trivial.
	
	Since I use Sun's at work and Mac's elsewhere much more than
	I use the Sun's, IMHO trying to solve problems with the Macintosh
	are much much simpler than diving into the complexities of
	Unix to fix problems. Sure perhaps you have to replace the
	System sometimes to solve some problems, I've seen them replace
	the contents of Sun HD's to solve intermittant strange problems
	from the backups. You just keep forgetting that diving into
	Unix is not for Joe Average user.. Replacing a bad system file,
	or locating a bad INIT, or installing fonts and DA's is a simple
	task on the Mac. Some users have to be shown "once" thats as far
	as it goes in most cases.

>
>It is true that most NeXT owners WILL use Unix. However, this is because 
>they'll want to do things that you wouldn't be able to do on a Mac or 
>because they want to do things without having to buy commerical software
>as you would have to do with a Mac (of course, there is pirating, but I
>won't go into that).  

	Neither will I. Pirating software is yet another useless discussion.
	However just the fact that a Next owner will "need" to know Unix
	prevents a large number of people from ever thinking about getting
	one. Many of the people on the net think nothing of zipping into
	work and plopping in front of their Unix Workstation and going to
	town, there are millions of other people that will never have the
	remotest inclination to do that, no matter how cheap, merely because
	once they try to comprehend Unix, that will be the stopper. Where 
	on the other hand, the Mac is easy to use, they don't need to have
	any significant comprehension of the Mac operating system to get
	down to doing the work they bought their Mac for in the first place.

	I've also noted all the issues of VM and Protected memory, while
	these would be nice additions to the Mac, of which VM is already
	a part of the higher end Mac's with 030's, protected memory is
	still down the road, however I suspect that you can still crash
	a Next. I've seen the Sun's here crash, so protected memory or
	not, you can still Crash the Cube under the right circumstances
	unless you think its impossible.....oh well, nuff said..
	(to much probably)
-- 
Norm Goodger				SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862
3Com Corp.				Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie.
Enterprise Systems Division             (I disclaim anything and everything)
UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg  Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM