Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sorry folks, it's NOT all relative. Message-ID: Date: 5 Nov 90 10:01:51 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 119 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu David Hatcher replies to my posting: # Your listings of the various aspects of Hinduism and Buddhism are # not from where I'd compare religions. I feel a more correct place to # look is within and into the actual awakening of the heart that the # adherents of those spiritual paths experience. Out of the abundance of the heart one speaks, as it is written. And further, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. What is written and taught is important, David. Apart from this, we have no idea who it is we are worshipping. Someone's idea of God might be a river, or a tree, or some other such nonsense. And the only way to know is to examine what they say and what they've written. Trying to get beyond this at this point creates a serious problem for me. I cannot speak for other Christians on this matter. The fact of the matter, David, is that these other religions do not worship the same God that I do. I do not find Jehovah God named among the many gods of Hinduism. Some Hindus proclaim one of their gods over another. This being the case, who then is God? The central teaching of the Buddha did not include any teaching of God, as I noted in what I posted earlier. From all the I have observed (and I spent time chanting with Buddhist in my days before Christ--over two years as a matter of fact), the Buddhist is not concerned with God in the same sense that Christians are. Let me quote the chant that is often heard: "To the Buddha for refuge I go; to the Dharma for refuge I go; to the Sanga for refuge I go." Not one of these is God. The Buddha is a man. The Dharma is his doctrine. The Sanga is the order of monks. For the Christian, God is our refuge, our real help in time of trouble. For us, God is personal and approachable, and He has made Himself knowable to us through Jesus Christ, His Only Begotten Son. God is external and the Creator of all that is, ever has been, and ever shall be. Even our meditation is upon Him and not ourselves. We are to meditate upon Him and His law (His Word) day and night. Through Jesus Christ I have access to the God and can delight in Him, and He in me. Now that I'm a Christian, the Spirit of this Living God indwells me. But before this there was nothing divine within me. And that the divine is within me is not of my own doing or merit--it is solely the work of a loving and merciful God. However, to be absolutely sure that I'm understood, this divine within me does not now, nor will it ever, make me a god for alone there is Jehovah God. There are no other gods or lords. The divine is in me so that I might have power to overcome sin and evil, but no that I might ascend to the throne of the Almighty, which sin felled Lucifer. My salvation is not of my own doing. It is the work of God unto His glory and honor. The only righteousness that I have is in the Lord Jesus Christ. My own righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of our holy God. And though I have come to Jesus Christ, I am still a sinner for I must wage war with the flesh daily. For this reason, it is said that Christians are only sinners saved by grace. These other religions do not provide any means of dealing with sin. Some deny that sin exists. Others try to make sin to be a means of spiritual growth. The Bible says that sin separates us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ. Sin destroyed our original relationship with God. Only the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, our propitiation for sin, is able to provide us with a means of restoring that relationship through grace and faith. It is not something that we can reach out for under our own works and grasp. Our works will never avail much without first the saving grace and faith that comes from God. If I were to teach anything other than this, I would be teaching another Gospel. But the facts are plain. For by grace are we saved, through faith; and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God; not of works lest any person should boast. Thus, through salvation, we come into a right relationship with Jehovah God. And through the power of the indwelling Spirit, we have power to overcome the world and our flesh. Further, it must be noted that we are the children of God and brothers and sisters to the Son of God with whom we are also joint heirs. The Lord Jesus Christ is our God and Savior, our Friend and Brother. He indwells us through the Spirit. In this we have communion with the living God. You constantly ask how this is experienced within Christians. Let me say that for me, I experience God awake and asleep. When I lay down to sleep, His law is in my mind and in my heart. And when I awake in the morning, His law is in my mind and in my heart. When I work, my mind and heart are stayed upon Him who loved me so and gave Himself for me. When trouble threatens, I no longer fear for the God of my salvation is with me. When I pray, I know that He hears me and we commune together. His presence is ever abiding with me through each day and night. When I consider all that I have, I'm humbled before this great and living God that He even allows me to live one moment longer for I'm a sinner. It is only His grace that saves me. And this fills me with a love for my great Savior God that puts each day, each moment of the day, each trial and tribulation, in the proper perspective. I know that in Him I'm more that a conqueror, I have power to overcome this body of death and sin. And within Him, I have authority as a believer to do the things that Jesus did, and yes, even greater things, so it is written. And when I finally lay down to leave this world, I know that in the next moment I will behold the face of the one who is my Beloved. I will see Him in His glory, the glory He had from the Beginning. And I will rest safe and secure in His arms, for eternity. There is no karmic wheel for the Christian. I need not fear what for others is unknown for it is not unknown to a Christian. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ. This is not an idle boast, it is truth that we can rely upon. There no other gods or lords that can do this for their followers. Where is the Buddha today? Where are the many gurus and swamis of Hinduism? Are they not all dead!? Yet, there stands Jesus Christ, alive and seated on the right hand of the Father. He is not dead. He arose in fulfillment of His promises. He is the firstborn of the resurrected. And we who are in Him are joint heirs with Him in glory or all that He inherits. In this world, there is much that frightens and confounds. But the Christian can be sure of this singular fact--God is upon His throne and in control. History will run the course that God has set before time for this world. And when the conclusion comes, all eyes will behold the true King and Lord of all. And at that time, all knees will bow and all tongues confess that Jesus is indeed Lord of lords, King of kings, and our great Savior God. Because He lives, Gene Gross