Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Bible the word of God? Message-ID: Date: 6 Nov 90 08:13:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 85 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , mib@geech.ai.mit.edu (Michael I. Bushnell) writes: > But I see your problem in a different light. If you are looking for > solid rules you can follow, then the New Testament and Christianity > are not for you. Ours is a religion of freedom from rules and > guidelines. In article , ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) writes: > Christianity is NOT free from rules and guidelines. WE must love God, we must > love others, we must not steal, we must not commit adultry, we must turn the > other cheek. God has given us laws which we must follow. > Now, because we are living in the age of grace, we are free from the old Jewish > laws. We are free from mechanical guidelines and repetitve acts. > Yet, this does not mean that we are free from laws. The are still laws of > God in existence today. There's a paradox right at the heart of Christianity. (One of many.) It's a mistake to reject either end of the paradox; we have to embrace it in order to understand it (credo ut intelligam). We can find both ends of the paradox stated very sharply in one short letter: Colossians. Colossians 2:16-23. "Freedom" Therefore don't let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink or feasts or New Moon festivals or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of the things to come, but the body is of Christ. Don't let anyone defraud you of the prize, humbling your mind to do that one's will and worship angels, intruding into things he hasn't seen, vainly puffed up in his carnal mind, so that you don't hold fast to the Head, from whom all the body (which is supplied and knitted together by the joints and sinews) grows with the growth of God. If then you died with Christ from the elements of the world, why do you subject yourselves to decrees as though you were still alive in the world. "Don't handle!" "Don't taste!" "Don't touch!", all of which tend to corruption in their use, according to the injunctions and teachers of human beings. These things do indeed have the appearance of wisdom, in voluntary worship, humility, and disciplining the body rather than holding the satisfaction of the flesh as a principle. Colossions 3:3-10. "Law" Because you have died, your life has been hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life will be revealed, then too you will be revealed with Him in glory. Therefore put to death your earthly limbs, fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is a kind of idolatry. On account of those things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience, amongst whom you used to walk when you were alive in those things. But now, put off all those things and anger, indignation, malice, blasphemy, and foul language. Don't lie to one another, because you have put off the old man with his deeds and put on the new that is being renewed into knowledge according to the imagine of the creatoer. And so it goes. There are some positive commands after that. That's quite a sharp paradox: "you're dead, so don't let anyone judge you with respect to dietary or ceremonial laws, but your life is hidden in God with Christ, so don't do any of these evil things and do do these good things." Consider 1 Cor 5:11. "If anyone claims the name of a brother [in Christ] but is a fornicator or is covetous or is an idolater or is a reviler or is a drunkard or is rapacious, don't associate with him, don't even eat with him." If that isn't a mechanical guideline, it'll do until one comes along. A Jewish friend, talking about the Jewish idea that Goyim can be righteous if they obey the seven Noachian commandments, clarified it this way: "they're not righteous if they just keep the 7 commandments, but only if they keep them _because_ they're *God's* commandments." I think that helps me with this paradox. I'll leave the final word with the letter to the Romans; the very letter which taught Luther about the centrality of Grace: Romans 6: 15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but grace? May it not be so! 18. Having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness! -- The problem about real life is that moving one's knight to QB3 may always be replied to with a lob across the net. --Alasdair Macintyre.