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From: gordon@cssun.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Israel
Message-ID: <1990Nov3.210105.11983@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
Date: 3 Nov 90 21:01:05 GMT
Sender: bes@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
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In article <1990Oct27.003113.10678@wpi.WPI.EDU> ghouse@server.cs.jhu.edu writes:
<
Gordon:
<> 1. I know that some prophets mentioned in the Bible (old testament)
<> are also honored by Islam. Now, many of these prophets prophesied
<> the return of the Jews (or Israelites) to their land. What is the
<> attitude of Islam towards these prophecies?
<
<I'm not sure if one could attribute an attitude to *Islam*, but some 
<*muslim* discussions that I'm aware of have taken the attitude that
<the prophesies were made in exile, in Babylon, and referred to a state
<that would be formed after the exile was over.  The Children of Israel 
<were led out of exile and later formed their own state (under the 
<Asmonaean dynasty? and the Maccabees?); it was this state that fulfilled 
<the prophesies;
<
<Also, in the Qur'an (surah 17, verses 5-7, I think) there is a speach to
<the Children of Israel, discussing how they were *twice* given great favours, 
<twice broke their covenant with God, and were twice punished.  This would 
<seem to imply a reference to the state after the return from exile.
<The two punishments would be the conquest by the Assyrians that ended the 
<first state, and the acts of the Romans (around 70 CE I think) after a
<rebellion in Palestine, that caused the destruction of the temple, and
<of the last vestiges of a Jewish state (which was in any case under Roman
<suzerainty by that time.)

Yes, but there are also specific prophecies (in the Bible) regarding the 
return of the Jews to Zion (as it is called mostly in those prophecies)
from many countries in the world. These prophecies cannot refer to the 
return from Babylon, because that was just one place.  Interestingly 
enough, there is also a reference to this in the Koran - see below. So
what I am really asking is whether Islamic scholars have ever considered
this question, and if so, what is their attitude to it?

Gordon:
<> 2. This is a highly theoretical question. I know that Islam's
<> attitude towards Israel is basically negative. However, since the 
<> start of Zionism, the Muslims have been unable to prevent the 
<> success of this movement. My question is related to the fact that
<> (as I understand it) the meaning of Islam is fundamentally a 
<> submission of one's will to God. Is it theoretically possible for
<> Islam to consider Israel's existence as (a part of) the will of
<> God? In other words, could the (relative) success of Zionism - in 
<> the face of strong opposition - be considered by Islam to be the 
<> result of God's will?
<
<According to Islam, everything is the result of God's will.  In the 
<Qur'an, after the speach I referred to above, is the following verse:
<(surah 17, verse 8)
<
<"It may be that your Lord may (yet) show mercy unto you; but if ye revert
<(to your sins) We shall revert (to Our punishments) and We have made Hell
<a prison for those who reject (all Faith)."
<
<(the translation is from Yusuf Ali)
<
<the context is of a speech to the Children of Israel, and seems to imply
<a possible third state.  (Also, many muslims believe that the establishment
<of Israel, and the previous success of the colonial powers, is a warning
<or punishment.)

This is very interesting. I have also found the following (from the 
translation by N. J. Dawood, Penguin Books) Surah 17, verse 103:

"He [Pharaoh - mentioned in the previous verse] sought to scare them out
of the land: but We drowned him, together with all who were with him. 
Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land. When the promise of
                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This definitely reads as a promise by God to the Israelites that in the
times shortly preceding the "hereafter", He will gather them all together.
It is entirely in agreement with the other above-mentioned prophecies in
the Bible.