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From: jjfeiler@nntp-server.caltech.edu (John Jay Feiler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: WANTED: objective info. on NeXT vs. Amiga
Message-ID: <1990Nov10.045915.4226@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
Date: 10 Nov 90 04:59:15 GMT
References: <90313.054820DLV101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 121

DLV101@psuvm.psu.edu (Dwaine VanBibber) writes:

>I am planning to get rid of my clunky DOS box. I am considering purchasing
>one of the following:

>--NeXTstation 040 version
>--Amiga 3000UX when it arrives
>--Sun Sparcstation

>I'd like some objective opinions one the merits of these machines. I realize
>the 3000UX is not available yet, so this will be difficult. Here are my
>requirements:

I'm also considering the purchase of two of the above three, (NeXT vs. A3000UX)
so I thought I'd add my $.02

>---UNIX, Mathematica, TeX 3.0, C++ (AT&T 2.0), GNU stuff, lex, yacc, f2c, p2c
3000UX: full s5r4 unix, forget mathemaitca, maple is much better for
research.  (I've heard some very good things about Maple V).  Radicel Eye
(Tomas Rokicki) has most of TeX 3.0 proted, so I've heard.  The previewer
for AmigaTeX is one of the BEST.  ANYWHERE, ANY MACHINE!  Lattice has C++ 1.2a,
and I talked to a guy from SAS at AmiExpo, who said that 2.0 will be available
2nd q '91.  Also, Comeau (sp?) computing has announced a C++ 2.0 for the
amiga, but I dno't know anything about supplied class libraries....
The GNU stuff is being ported even as wee speak.  GNUEmacs and gcc are done, 
but shakey. G++ is in the works.  lex and yacc hare already ported, I think.
I dont know about f2c, but I'm pretty sure I heard that p2c is ported.
NeXT: Mach, not UNIX, but close.  Won't be able to take advantage of the
"shrink-wrapped" unix binaries to be available soon.....
Comes with Mathematica, TeX.  Comes with Objective-C, which has its good
and bad points compared to C++.  C++ only allows compile time linking of 
objects, but I think that Objective-C allows runtime binding.  Supposedly,
G++ 2.0 will allow runtime binding.  Release.... your guess or mine?  I believe
most GNU stuff is already ported, as well as lexx, yacc, etc.

>---Some GUI (no preference). If its big and clunky, a graphics processor
The Amiga GUI is quite nice, IMHO.  2.0 workbench is a VAST improvement over 1.3
It screams on an '030 machine.  NeXT with an '030 is slow as a dog.  The '040
NeXT's are supposed to be great.
>---Considerable raw processing power (the NeXT cube 030 is simply out of the
>   question)
A NeXT '040 vs. an AMiga with an '040 board --- probably a tossup.  They'll
probably both be available at the same time too.  Even about the same price
('030 cube upgrade vs Amiga '040 card)

>---Price is a big factor. I'm a student. $4000 ballpark
If that $4000 is firm, forget the NeXT.  The cheapest Color NeXT Educational
price I've seen is about $5700, with a 105 meg HD, no optical drive, no
printer, 2.88M floppy, monitor, 8M ram.
We still have virtually nothing as to the price of the a3000UX, bu I've
heard projections of about $4500 total EduDisc., but I think $5000 is
more likely.

>---MS-DOS emulation (hardware or software) is a MUST
Well, you can get a bridgeboard for the amiga, and run MS-DOS in parallel.
I think that there is a SoftPC for the NeXT.  This doesn't matter much to me.

>---Standard UNIX tape drive + 3.5"
>---Bus mastering architecture (if possible)
?????  I don't have any idea.

>---I refuse to pay a lot for software
From what I've seen, Amiga software is considerably cheaper than for the
NeXT.  FrameMaker for NeXT and Mac cost the same, and we know how expensive
Mac software is.  Maple for the Amiga costs $395 Edu Disc.  Lotus Improv
will list for $695 for the NeXT, if you don't get it by Dec. 31.  I don't
have much in the way of direct comparisons.

>---The machine will primarily be used for software development (testing of
>   data structures and algorithms and graphics work) and document preparation
>   via FrameMaker and TeX. Color would be a plus since I do a lot of fractal
>   programming.
iBoth would be good for this, i guess.  Again, color NeXT gets pricey.


>---Monitor (800x600) 16" diagonal minimum
Both Edu. packages come with monitors, as far as I know.  The standard amiga
color monitor resolution is 640x400 NTSC w/o overscan.  7xx by 5xx overscan.
Next monitors are Megapixels, something like 1200x800.  I'm not sure exactly.
The Amiga monitor is about 13" diag, but you can always get a bigger monitor.
If you don't mind grayscale, the "Hedley" Monitor gives you 1280x800 2-plane
on an Amiga.

>---I'm also a musician/composer, so MIDI would be a plus
Quite a bit of MIDI stiff is available for the AMiga.  Dr. T's KCS is very
good, though I'm no expert.  The NeXT has a built-in 56001 DSP, which
allows for some fun.  There are DSP boards avail. for the Amiga, but they are
a bit expensive....

>---Need is not immediate, more like mid-January
Well, delivery of the '040 NeXTs is expected about then, assuming that 
Motorola gets around to shipping some '040s.  I've heard that the A3000UX
might be released as soon as Comdex next week, but this is only RUMOR!!!!
At any rate, I expect to see it before January.


>I could go for AmigaDOS if someone can convince me that the software
>development environment can be made very UNIX-like.
The amiga dev environment is already similar to that of unix.  If you
have a A3000UX, it IS unix!  I have heard that the recently posted
curses library works quite well, removing many of the impediments to
unix porting.

> Also, I don't want any
>problems getting UNIX apps to compile and run. I have enough problems with
>Mess-DOS and this stupid segmented architecture. I failed to mention that
>I'd like to have a postscript printer that (hopefully) can be run parallel
>rather than serial. Any good, objective opinions would be appreciated. This
>is not to be another stupid flame war.  Any comments would be greatly
>appreciated, especially from those of you who have used more than one of the
>above machines. Thank you.
>--Dwaine

Well, I've said enough.  If anybod else has any CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms of
either machine, I'd like to hear them.  Both machines have their good and bad
points.

"Make up your own mind....after youv'e considered all the reasonable
possibilities...."

	John Feiler