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From: USERSIG@MTSG.UBC.CA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Apple II / Mac discusson
Message-ID: <2550568@mtsg.ubc.ca>
Date: 12 Nov 90 01:34:18 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 85

>>> However, the fact is that there is a LOT of P8 and DOS 3.3 stuff out
>>> there that IS designed for 64K or 48K or even 32K that has close to
>>> the same functionality as programs that require 1MB or more on a
>>> Mac.
 
>> I totally agree (for once :)).  But you could do the same thing on any
>> machine including the Mac if you're willing to code meticulously in
>> assembler, provide a text based interface, and not have to worry
>> about working cooperatively with anything else.
 
>Well, not quite.  First, the Mac has NO text interface mode.  You simply
>couldn't get the speed of pure text on a Mac; you'd still have to draw
>all the characters.
 
Good point, but I really wouldn't want a true text only mode on the
Mac anyhow.  Getting away from all kinds of different 'modes',
whether it be text/graphics or different resolutions is a very good
thing in my opinion.  The world of IBM PCs is the worst for all its
'modes', but the Apple II world is pretty confusing too for the
novice.  (Not that I'd want to run an Apple IIe in a graphic only
mode or anything like that.)
 
Interesting thing to note is that a text editor like Vantage on the
Mac which does not support styled text (ie. you must display all
your text in one size and style) scrolls about the same speed as a
text only program like AppleWorks on an Apple II.
 
>>I said "MacWrite is slow" and it's not the Mac OS that's the cause.
 
>I'll, admit that; I know there is faster Mac software out there, and I
>agree that the AW-Classic vs. MacWrite comparison is simply not fair.
>However, I also compared AW-Classic to MS Works for the Mac, which is a
>program similar in functionality.  And in most places, AW-Classic comes
>close to or exceeds Works.
 
Ahh, but take a look at an ad for WriteNow and you'll see that Works
is even slower than MacWrite.  My own experience with Works leads me
to believe it is likely the slowest program available for the Mac.
 
There really are very few fair direct comparisons of software that
you can make between the Mac and the Apple II because of differing
capabilities and differing emphasis on what's important.  I can
think of a couple I'd like to try if I had the software, such as
Vantage versus the fastest 16 bit editor on the GS, and WriteNow
reformatting, spellchecking, and search/replace versus the fastest
word processor on the GS, but would anyone really care about the
results?
 
>>I don't even use White Knight, but I do use ZTerm, NCSA Telnet, MacIP,
>>MacKermit, and QDial.  None of which are perfect, but they do provide me
>>with capabilities that I need that are not available with any Apple II
>>software.
 
>Oh??  I admit that TCP/IP connections such as those provided by NCSA
>Telnet or MacIP are not yet available on the IIgs, but that's only
>because the software hasn't been written yet.  It is being written as we
>speak.
 
What software is available determines what you can do with a
computer.  Vapourware is no use to me.  That is why a Mac was
useless to me years ago when it first came out.  I could do far more
of the things I wanted to do using an Apple II in 1984/85 than I
could with the Mac.  But now it's the other way around.
 
>MacKermit??  I know you've heard of Kermit-65 for the //; you
>mentioned it in your letter.
 
Whoops, I was thinking of doing graphic terminal emulation, which
MacKermit *cannot* do.  PC-Kermit can.  I should have mentioned
VersaTerm, or the Mesa Graphics Terminal program both of which do
very nice Tektronics emulation and graphics captures.
 
>I'm sorry, I haven't heard of ZTerm and QDial, but I imagine you will
>find Apple // software that can do the same things.
 
Well, ZTerm provides complete ZMODEM protocol support, something
that ProTerm may have now (or very soon?).  QDial provides fast
repeat dialing capability with busy-detect, completely in the
background whether you run MultiFinder or not (it works as a vbl
task).
 
Gee, I wonder if we've exhausted this topic yet or not?  If we
haven't exhausted it, we've certainly beat on it pretty good. :)
 
Les_Ferch@mtsg.ubc.ca