Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!prls!pyramid!ctnews!88opensi!dmeyer From: dmeyer@88opensi.UUCP (Derek Meyer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.m88k Subject: Re: Mashey on 88k (or *real* numbers) Message-ID: <577@88opensi.UUCP> Date: 14 Nov 90 02:16:00 GMT Organization: 88open Consortium Ltd. Lines: 183 Let me try and clarify Mashey's confusion with a few facts. ABOUT 88OPEN..... Mashey's comments seem to indicate a lack of understanding about 88open. That's not surprising, but I certainly wouldn't want his misunderstanding propagated in 88k-land. Although I probably can't convince John to switch to an 88k-based product, maybe I can clarify our purpose - and clear up the confusion. 88open is about solutions. Our goal is to ensure compatible solutions, from multiple vendors, for users of 88000-based systems. "Solutions," in this case mean a combination of systems and application software available for customers to purchase, based on their needs. Our use of standards allows solutions to come from multiple vendors. Adoptors of the MC88000 can choose to develop "architecturally dis-similiar" systems (i.e. different buses, single/multi-processors, different OS's, etc.) which are compatible to a set of standards. Compatibility to our standards allows systems manufacturers to offer their users solutions based on a broad variety of application software - without porting each package uniquely to each platform. Each of 88open's communication tools, including the Sourcebook, is designed to address this goal. OUR CATALOGUE VS. THE REST Since Mashey used the MIPS catalogue as a comparison against 88open's, the reverse is only fair. As near as I can tell, the RISCware catalogue serves one of two purposes: a) it represents a list of software for computers from MIPS Inc. b) it represents software available for all computers using MIPS chips. I find the second option quite unlikely, as there are no standards for compatibility or testing for binary compatible products based on the MIPS chip. Furthermore, with byte reversal, as DEC uses, binary compatibility is inhibited further. I must assume, therefore, that RISCware refers only to software for computers manufactured and marketed by MIPS Inc.. Other catalogues, like Sun's "SPARCware" are like MIPS - they are unique to a specific manufacturer. There's no guarantee that the software listed runs or is available, on clones or other systems based on the same chip. 88open members also have their own catalogues - like the MIPS' RISCware and Sun SPARCware. For example, Data General has their own catalogue which lists software for their AViiON systems. (As I recall, Data General's catalogue has at least as many applications as the MIPS catalogue.) The 88open Sourcebook is entirely different. The Sourcebook is the ONLY catalogue of it's kind. This catalogue is designed to list (a) standards- compatible hardware systems and (b) application software for ALL these systems. Each software product listed has a corresponding "Certification Agreement" - a written aggreement with 88open to: (a) develop a version of their product which complies to the standards, (b) certify that product as compliant, and (c) SELL OR LICENSE THE CERTIFIED PRODUCT ON EVERY SYSTEM CERTIFIED BY 88OPEN. Simply stated, the 88open Sourcebook provides end users with a reference of applications which are compatible on ALL 88k-based systems adhering to the standards. Upon certification, each application may be purchased for ANY certified system. This assurance is something no other catalogue provides. We rigorously test all products for compatibility and indicate the status of these products in the Sourcebook. 88000-BASED HARDWARE: There are indeed over 50 manufacturers building 88k-based products today. These products range from telecom devices and realtime embedded systems, to workstations, servers and massively parallel processors. The 88open Sourcebook only lists announced products which are (a) certified or (b) obtaining certification of compatibility to the 88open standards. The current Sourcebook (3rd edition) lists 67 different 88k-based products. 61 of these have been tested by 88open and granted "certification." The remainder are "in progress" of obtaining certification. The Sourcebook will be updated to reflect new certifications and additional products planned for certification. Between printings, users may contact 88open for updated information. Vendors which use the 88000 but have not **announced** plans of complying to the 88open standards are not listed. Doing so, would be inconsistent with the intent of the Sourcebook. Again, the purpose of the Sourcebook is to provide users with a reference of compatible systems and applications from multiple vendors. The only products listed, hardware or software, are those committed to delivering products certified as compatible. Category # of vendors # of products -------- ------------ ------------- 88k-based products 50+ * Committed to 88open compatibility 11 67** 88open certified 8 61 (*This number can be provided by Motorola, but is obviously >67.) (**These numbers do NOT include unannounced products/vendors.) 88OPEN SOFTWARE: There are indeed over 1500 applications running on 88k-based systems today. This includes a variety of platform-specific products and "layered" applications - those running on top of other software packages. 88open provides assistance to ISVs who wish to construct a version of their product which (a) complies to the standards and (b) is available to users of any certified platform. The 88open Consortium is working to ensure that these, and other, applications are available on ALL 88open certified systems - not just some. This provides 88000 users with the widest selection of solutions, independent of system supplier. Today, the Consortium is working with appx. 200 software companies to certify their products as compatible with the standards. (Not all these are listed in the 3rd edition - it went to print 60 days ago and the list continues to grow!) Each of these vendors intends to develop single versions of their products which support multiple manufacturers' 88000-based systems. These ~200 companies represent ~400 products **plus applications which run layered on top of these.** [An example of layered applications are products written in Unify's Accell 4GL. Accell has been certified. Any application written exclusively in Accell need not undergo 88open certification to be assured to execute on a certified system. There are a number of other examples.] 88open does NOT list or count layered applications in the Sourcebook. They are listed seperately in application-specific catalogues. [Using the Unify/Accell example again, they publish their own catalog listing 100's of applications running on Accell.] There's enough "padding" of numbers in this industry; we don't duplicate the listing - or the count. As applications are certified, and run on ALL certified systems, layered applications follow automatically. If we were to list layered applications in our Sourcebook, it would already look like the San Jose yellow pages. Instead, we refer users to the application specific catalogues. As we work with ISVs, we place their products into three categories: o certified - tested by 88open and shipping today **in shrinkwrapped fashion on ALL certified systems.** o in progress - on the "short list" of certification. We have a schedule for certification and are working toward a specific date. Users may contact 88open or the vendor for availability dates. o planned compliant - the ISV is committed, in writing, to developing and delivering a certified version of their product. We are working with the ISV to establish a formal certification schedule. As I mentioned earlier, many of these products already run on some 88k-based systems. We're working with the ISV to have them run on ALL certified systems. Over the next few months, the number of compatible applications will grow dramatically. Today, we have appx. 70 applications (the number changes daily) which are certified **and several hundred which are layered on these.** Each of the certified applications is assured to run, and is available for purchase on ALL certified systems. The number of applications compatible through use of the 88open standards increases both by those certified and by those layered on top of certified software. SUMMARY: 88open provides the only formal mechanism to guarantee availability of applications, and hence solutions, to adoptors of a chip. Any system vendor can develop a product based on the 88000 and be guaranteed to have software available for their product - independent of their own ISV activities - through 88open. Our standards, testing, and certification program is the most complete in the indusrty. Finally, we are the only organization of our kind - providing ISVs, system vendors, and end users an assurance of compatibility AND availability. Standard disclaimer: the opinions are mine, but may be shared by others... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek Meyer | Director of Marketing | 88open Consortium Ltd. uunet!88opensi!dmeyer | (408) 436-6600 | 100 Homeland Court dmeyer@88open.org | | Suite 800 | | San Jose, CA. 95112 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------