Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!winchester!mash From: mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.m88k Subject: Re: Mashey on 88k (or *real* numbers) Message-ID: <43294@mips.mips.COM> Date: 16 Nov 90 00:06:58 GMT References: <577@88opensi.UUCP> Sender: news@mips.COM Reply-To: mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. Lines: 69 In article <577@88opensi.UUCP> dmeyer@88opensi.UUCP (Derek Meyer) writes: > >Let me try and clarify Mashey's confusion with a few facts. Now, this is a good, informative, and reasoned reponse. Thanx! >ABOUT 88OPEN..... >Mashey's comments seem to indicate a lack of understanding about 88open. >That's not surprising, but I certainly wouldn't want his misunderstanding >propagated in 88k-land. Well, actually, more of the confusion is putting the numbers together from different organizations. I think I do understand what 88Open does, and I have its catalogs, and I get the 88Open Newsletter.... >OUR CATALOGUE VS. THE REST >Since Mashey used the MIPS catalogue as a comparison against 88open's, the >reverse is only fair. As near as I can tell, the RISCware catalogue serves >one of two purposes: > a) it represents a list of software for computers from MIPS Inc. > b) it represents software available for all computers using MIPS chips. >I find the second option quite unlikely, as there are no standards for >compatibility or testing for binary compatible products based on the MIPS chip. >Furthermore, with byte reversal, as DEC uses, binary compatibility is inhibited >further. I must assume, therefore, that RISCware refers only to software for >computers manufactured and marketed by MIPS Inc.. Actually, not quite: fits: Pyramid, CDC, Prime, E&S, among others. Does not include DEC, correct. >88open members also have their own catalogues - like the MIPS' RISCware and Sun >SPARCware. For example, Data General has their own catalogue which lists >software for their AViiON systems. (As I recall, Data General's catalogue has >at least as many applications as the MIPS catalogue.) Perhaps someone would post something about that, or, I offer once again, if somebody from DG would send a catalog, we'll be glad to trade (after I get back from month traveling around world :-) >88OPEN SOFTWARE: > >There are indeed over 1500 applications running on 88k-based systems today. >This includes a variety of platform-specific products and "layered" >applications - those running on top of other software packages. I think this is probably where the confusion comes from, as there are, clearly: a) Platform-specific products. For example, I looked at the Summer 1990 Catalyst; I counted 1917 entries labeled as available on SPARC; 110 of them were not software, or really had no SPARC-specificity at all (i.e., mice, VME-bus analyzers, consultants, training courses, Auspex file servers, et, i.e., stuff you could hook with a MIPS or DG, and maybe change a config file, but not much else, at most). 345 were hardware-specific chunks of software, i.e. typically VME-bus devices; 3 were S-bus specific), leaving 1454 that one would expect to run across different configurations. (Note that this is NOT 2000, the usual number cited :-) b) Layered products. It turns out that most vendors don't count these in their counts, even though most of us have them; note that that 1500 number didn't say anything one way or another, which is why I asked.... -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: UUCP: mash@mips.com OR {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash DDD: 408-524-7015, 524-8253 or (main number) 408-720-1700 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086