Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!shelby!portia.stanford.edu!elaine0.stanford.edu!draphsor From: draphsor@elaine0.stanford.edu (Matt Rollefson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.games Subject: Re: RPG opinions (was Re: Programmer...) Message-ID: Date: 13 Nov 90 07:40:02 GMT References: <1990Nov13.013631.1774@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@portia.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: AIR, Stanford University Lines: 69 smsmith@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M. Smith) writes: >Here's another thought: Why should all the monsters have predetermined >strengths, agility, "HP", etc.? If your elf fighter or dwarf fighter >can range from "level 1" to "level 20", why does an orc always have >the same HP and the same AC? Excellent point. > Sure, every now and then you get an >"orc leader" but this is rare. The reason this is done is twofold: > 1) [w/2000 encounters, tough to make the monsters different > from the average.] Very true. The number of encounters is ridiculous. > 2) Easier to program. Every monster X will have class A > characteristics, every monster Y will have class B > characteristics, etc. I'm not so convinced on this one. I don't see why it would be that much tougher to give each monster X a range of characteristics in class A, each monster Y a (different) range in a (different) class B. The problem is not the programming, but rather the game conception. >Solution: Reduce the the number of encounters to around 300 (?) and >make each monster different from the next even within the same species. Like you, I'd actually like to see it go much lower - by another order of magnitude, in fact. > ... Plus the game >would not be designed around simply fighting battles--fighting would >be one element of the gaming world's environment. Exactly. Ideally, fighting would become something to be *avoided*, not sought out. Admittedly, in some heroic fantasy the hero seems to revel in battle, and even seek it out. But in real life (even real fantasy life :) ), you aren't going to go out and risk your neck without a *very* good reason. (And going into combat is a risk no matter your level of skill - in real life. In the typical hack 'n' slash game, of course, it's usually no longer a risk after the first three hours of playing the game, if you stay in the 'easy' dungeons long enough.) I'd like to see quests that could even be accomplished without combat, if you were extremely lucky/clever/skilled. Not to say that everything was a puzzle. More like there are two ways to go about things. For instance, there is a guard at a gate. You can kill the guard and walk in, or you can sneak past him. Often, getting into a fight is the worse approach - the guard is likely to cry for help. Now, there, I've just opened a huge can of worms. Yes, let's talk about it. The NPCs need to be intelligent. Our program (simulation, actually) now needs to keep track of who is within hearing of the guard, how soon they'll arrive, if he'll cry out, etc. Complication has gone up by another order of magnitude. The reason? We're asking for a program to model a dynamic world now. Most game worlds are static - they don't change until the player comes along. In a real simulation, things should be happening despite me as well as because of me. This becomes extremely difficult to program, though. Well, that's enough for tonight. I've been enjoying this discussion - hope you are too. (The lurkers, that is. I'm pretty sure that the other participants have enjoyed it, judging by their posts. Yay! No flames. And after reading comp.sys.mac.misc.next.flame.war, that is indeed a relief! :) ) -- Draphsor vo'drun-Aelf draphsor@portia.stanford.edu