Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucbvax!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!knrgroup
From: knrgroup@garnet.berkeley.edu (Raymond group)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Not another NeXT defector???!!!
Message-ID: <1990Nov10.223123.26393@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: 10 Nov 90 22:31:23 GMT
References: <1990Nov9.195958.15383@midway.uchicago.edu> <1990Nov10.192652.29728@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 49

folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes:
>I have seen a lot of messages in this thread that state that the NeXT hides
>UNIX so well that users will never see it.  As a (Sun) UNIX user, I find
>this hard to believe.

The NeXT is not a Sun.  The NeXT was built with a different philosophy.  In
fact, my impression is that Steve Jobs does not like Unix and only used it
because you could not get equivalent functionality with any other OS.

The NeXT does hide Unix.  Unless you are a superuser or go to the trouble of
selecting the Unix Expert option, you cannot even see, let alone access the
standard Unix directories from the desktop.  To browse files, you use a
desktop with an icon metaphor, like the Mac, or browse menus, like a PC.
You should never have to know that an "ls" command even exists.  Printing,
file management, searching for text strings, et al, are all done from menus,
like the Mac.  You should never HAVE to know "grep."  Cutting and pasting
within and between applications is a snap, even between text stored in 
varying formats (ascii, RTF, postscript, etc.).  

>...I spent _hours_ bringing a friend's Sun back from a crash the other day
>[followed by a story of a Sun OS nightmare]

I've had to use fsck once in my NeXT life.  It found the problem and solved
the problem (some kind of media error).  When something goes wrong with the
system, we reboot, or, in extreme cases, reload the operating system
(we had to do this once with a beta version of the 2.0 system).  Of course,
we use the optical drive to load the system, and it will undoubtedly be a
pain to reload the entire OS from floppies.  However, with the 2.88 MB'
floppies, only 10-15 diskettes would be needed to hold the OS (as compared
to 4 floppies for the Mac).  I don't know how many floppies it would take
to hold the Sun OS.  

>...if a system file gets munged on the Mac, you probably only have to
>copy the System and Finder onto it to get yourself back up.  But a UNIX
>system needs files in /etc, in /lib...

Since file-copying is done with a Mac-like mouse-dragging metaphor. All this
would only entail dragging the appropriate files or directories from the
floppy or optical to the appropriate directory on the NeXT.Of course, there more
are more files to worry about on a NeXT. But if you're feeling lazy, you can
graba an entire directory and plunk it onto your NeXT.

 Finally, I want to mention that although it is possible for a novice user
to mung up the system, the NeXT makes it hard to do so.  As I mentioned,
the typical user can't see let only access the standard Unix directories
(/etc, /lib, et al) or files (any of the dot files, et al).  To do some
real damage, a novice user would have to fire up a shell, su to root, and
then play with Unix system files or programs.  Only a user with some 
prior knowledge of Unix would be able to do this.