Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Validity of Baptism Message-ID: Date: 13 Nov 90 10:09:47 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Labs (Liberty Corner) Lines: 65 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I wrote, regarding the baptism of infants: Its efficacy came under attack in the Reformation because it is incompatible with Luther's doctrine of justification. And the moderator replied: Your reference to Luther's theory of justification suggests that Luther opposed infant baptism. He did not, and in his later life he persecuted those who did. All of which is, of course, true. The actual issue was not justification, but the nature of the Church. I disagree. The differences on the Church are a result of the doctrine on grace, but the efficacy of infant Baptism I think definitely tied to Luther's doctrine of justification. The Catholic Encyclopedia states that Luther, attempting to keep the traditional practice, suggested a miraculous act of faith on the part of the infants being baptized. I don't see what else he could have suggested if he wanted to keep the practice, and his doctrine of justification. Catholics baptize babies because they believe that they are thereby justified. But as far as I can see, Luther's theory of justification requires an act of the will that a baby can't make without positing a specially miraculous intervention on God's part. Joe Buehler [I took a look at Luther's statements in the Large and Small Catechisms and the Babylonian Captivity. He does not require faith as a prerequisite to baptism. Rather, faith is necessary to benefit from the baptism. Baptism is a visible presentation of the Word. Its validity comes directly from the Word, and is not dependent upon our reception of it. However we need faith in order for it to justify us. "baptism is simply water and God's Word in and with each other: that is, when the Word accompanies the water, baptism is rightly administered although faith be not present; for faith does not constitute baptism, it receives it. ... it is not bound to our faith, but to the Word of God." He does imply couple of places that he thinks infants can in some way believe, but does not develop that idea. As to the question of whether baptism actually confers grace as well as symbolizing it, there is in the discussion in the Large Catechism suggestions of this, but not a very clear presentation. For Luther the Word calls forth faith. If you take seriously the concept that the Word is present in baptism, then you can see that baptism is more than just a sign. This is suggested by his statement "Thus we see what a splendid thing baptism is, which rescues us from the very jaws of the devil, makes us God's own children, overcomes and takes away sin, daily strengthens the new man in us, and always continues with us until, snatched from the misery of the present, we shall have attained to the eternal glory beyond." In the Babylonian Captivity, he comments that infants are aided by the faith of others, namely those that bring him to baptism. He says this is a general belief. A footnote (not from Luther) cites Aquinas, Augustine, and Clement V. However the Babylonian Captivity is a fairly early writing, and I'm not sure he continued to hold this belief. --clh]