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From: jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Validity of Baptism (Was Re: In Communion with Rome?)
Message-ID: <Nov.13.05.10.33.1990.1460@athos.rutgers.edu>
Date: 13 Nov 90 10:10:36 GMT
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Some comments on Donatism and sacramental intent.

Donatism denies the validity of the sacraments conferred by a man in a
state of mortal sin -- i.e., not "justified".  This idea was condemned
in the 4th century.  It leads to insuperable problems regarding the
visibility of the Church, because it is impossible to judge who's in a
state of grace and who isn't, and thus whose Holy Orders are valid, and
whose aren't, etc.

The doctrine on intention when conferring a Sacrament is somewhat
different.  The minister has to have the intention to confer a Sacrament
in order for it to be actually conferred.  Valid intent can take various
forms, which I will not even attempt to go into.  But, I suppose the
main point is that, if, say, a bishop went through the motions of
ordaining a priest, but withheld his intent to confer orders, he
wouldn't confer orders.

Without external manifestation, internal intent is impossible to judge,
of course, so the Church undoubtedly recognizes one's Catholic orders,
confirmation, etc. unless there is decidedly good reason not to.

I remember reading someone who expressed the opinion that the Vatican II
liturgical changes may bring about invalid Masses because they have
weakened the expression of the intent of the Mass significantly.  It is
a problem when a priest thinks of the Mass as a meal but not the
Sacrifice of Calvary.  I wouldn't venture to say exactly when such a
priest stops saying Mass, but eventually a point must be reached, it
would seem to me, because at some point his Faith will be gone, and
he'll be thinking totally in terms of bread and wine, and not the Body
and Blood.

Joe Buehler