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From: deane@payne.ifa.hawaii.edu (Rebel Without A Clue)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: A modest proposal...
Message-ID: <10353@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu>
Date: 20 Nov 90 22:36:02 GMT
References: <10490@ur-cc.UUCP> <1990Nov19.033747.29163@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <27013.27483646@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <1990Nov20.171542.8779@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
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In article <1990Nov20.171542.8779@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> wln@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (William L Nussbaum) writes:
>In article <27013.27483646@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> mlab2@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>Here's a dilemna...
>>
>>Consider an anti-virus virus.  The Mac community has a number of excellent
...............
>>
>>Problems?  The ethical one of course.  That is, "No program or code shall 
>>modify it to destructive ends.
>
>
>...why are you minimizing the ethical considerations?  To affect someone or
>his or her work by deceit (or by force), REGARDLESS of the intent, is a
>violation of that person.
>
>   I'm frightened about the fact that you could continue to pose the question,
>and that you seemed to take the idea somewhat seriously.  Once you disregard
>the morality of your actions (on a rational individualism, not on an arbitrary
>religious morality), what standard do you have against which to judge your
>actions?  The benefit to others?  Have you discussed this personally with the
>several million people who would be susceptible to such a virus?  Leave the
>individual decisions to the individual.  If your lab needs protection, either
>make the equipment capable of handling it, or forgo the automatic protection,
>and prepare another procedure for dealing with the viruses you already have.
>
>Other problems?
>
>- You have no control over the extent of this virus.
>- You have no control over future modification of this virus.
>- You introduce another variable into problems people may have.
>- You cannot repair viruses with it.
>- Given that it's copying itself over and over, there are a number of
>   opportunities for corruption.
>
>Think about what you're saying...
>
>
>| William Lee Nussbaum, Jr.
>| wln@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu


	I find your language to be patronizing, and your point not as
obvious as it appears you see it.  I see nothing wrong in a self-terminating
bounty-hunter program which is designed and constructed to deal with 
troublemakers like viruses. I do believe that it should be written such
that it seeks out only known, specific viruses: Once you start setting
criteria for "what *looks* like a virus" then you open yourself to great 
risk of accidents or  malicious redirection. 
	Your other points:
-- the self-termination gives control over the chronologic veracity of this
	code. As far as spreading, the darn thing's *supposed* to spread
	out; wherever viruses go, it should be able to go
-- no one ever has control over code, written word or thought, once they're
	submitted to the public. Don't blame this idea for not doing the
	impossible.
-- This variable should significantly reduce the problems made by the other
	variables. You can't solve all problems by stepping backwards in
	complexity
-- Repairing a virus is a stupid idea. "Think about what you're saying...."
-- Look at mutation rates of current viruses, and I bet you'll find they 
	are comparable with disk-copy mutations, i.e. extremely rare. 


	I think your attempt to shrug off the idea is hasty and ill-thought
out.  

	THIS IS NOT A FLAME for those who are succeptible to reading tones
of voice into keystrokes.  All I am saying is that William has been quick
to throw out an idea that I believe deserves honest discussion. I am NOT
NECESSARILY advocating the creation of such a beast. Think before you post.
	Jim
--
James "Rebel Without A Clue" Deane          Institute for Astronomy
deane@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu                2680 Woodlawn Dr
"My God, it's full of *s!"                  Honolulu, HI 96822
	Grad Student/Astronomer/Diver/Mac Technician