Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!att!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!cs.dal.ca!NSTN.NS.CA!clyde.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!mouse From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: NOT (click to type) in NeXTStep? Message-ID: <1990Nov18.070540.21519@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> Date: 18 Nov 90 07:05:40 GMT References: <1990Oct28.165341.6949@cs.cmu.edu> <56054@brunix.UUCP> Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines Lines: 97 In article <56054@brunix.UUCP>, rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) writes: > In article purtill@morley.rutgers.edu (Mark Purtill) writes: >> jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes: >>> It is NOT just a vestige of non-multi-tasking systems. In saying >>> this, you seem to be making the assumption that everyone would >>> prefer the non-click-to-type method of activation. I disagree. Making assumptions about what "everyone" would prefer is dangerous. Almost all such assumptions are false. >> Irrelavent. This thread started with someone asking for the OPTION >> to not have to click to type. No one has suggested that everyone be >> forced to use non-click to type, and indeed X allows both click to >> type and not. >> And if you would find it horrible to have pointer-focus, that's >> exactly how I feel about click-to-type. Different people have >> different preferences, and NeXT won't make any sales by telling >> people that their preferences are wrong. > Although I hate to repeat myself, I think I have to post this again > since this discussion about click to focus or point to focus is > getting out of hand and starts being boring. > There is a BIG difference between a window server (Xwindows) and a > user interface (NeXT's Workspace manager). Go back and reread the pieces I've quoted with ">>". Most users can't see the difference in architecture between X and NextStep, and many of them wouldn't understand if you explained it. They just want it to work the way they want it to work, and aren't interested in excuses about what a lovely clean architecture this system uses when it means you can't get what you want. > The WS is designed to help people with on of the problems of GUIs > i.e. cluttered screens. In order to do so the WS hides certain sorts > of windows (i.e. panels and menues) while an application is not in > focus. Thereby eliminating any danger that the user could find any useful information in them when using some other app. Hmm. Thankee very much, but let *me* decide when those little windows should go away, okay? It's *my* screen layout. Grrr. > Thus switching focus is sort of an strong function performed by the > user. It involves hiding all the menues and panels of the currently > focused application and exposing the panels and menues of the to be > focused application. This results in a sometimes heavy change in the > layout of the screen and takes also quite some cpu cycles. In order > to save your (i.e. the users) eyes and the performance of the cpu, > the WS requires you to click on a window of the application you want > to focus on. Without this, a slight move of the mouse could result > in 10 focus changes in half a second and thus you would see all the > panels and menues flashing over your screen. Do you really want to > option to hurt your eyes? This is a specious argument. There is nothing wrong with move-to-type with a slight delay, such as requiring the mouse to sit still in the new window for some time - a fifth of a second should be good - before performing the switch. (Ideally, during this time keystrokes are queued somewhere, not delivered to the previous focus window.) And yes, I want the option. It is not your, or NeXT's, place to try to tell me what I want. And if you, or NeXT, tells me I can't have it, regardless of the reason, that will have a negative effect on my opinion of the UI. > Yes, X gives your more flexibility in this respect, but you have to > do also all the work yourself to keep a screen on which you are able > to work, NeXT does a lot of this for you without that you really > notice. Speak for yourself. > A little click may be annoying in the beginning, but as you have to > move the mouse anyway, it does not hurt either. Well, under X I *don't* have to move the mouse. I use neither click-to-type nor move-to-type, but rather type-to-type: to change windows I use a select-key paradigm. (That is, to type into a given window, I press my "select" key (F7 or F8 on this keyboard, depending on whether I want to also raise the window or not) and then the key corresponding to the window I want.) NeXTStep doesn't give me this. Neither does the supplied X distribution, but X supplies enough documentation to allow me to do it myself. The NeXT doesn't, unless several people around here are joined in a conspiracy to keep the relevant documentation away from me (postings in support of this notion please use alt.conspiracy :-). I don't use NeXTs much; this is a strong reason why, though there are others. der Mouse old: mcgill-vision!mouse new: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu