Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!uw-beaver!milton!ogicse!cs.uoregon.edu!storm!bostrov From: bostrov@storm.UUCP (Vareck Bostrom) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Next, 40, Sparc, 2 Message-ID: <650@storm.UUCP> Date: 20 Nov 90 19:31:34 GMT References: <1990Nov12.135515@Atherton.COM> <11090@pt.cs.cmu.edu> <30017@boulder.Colorado.EDU> Reply-To: bostrov@storm.UUCP (Vareck Bostrom) Organization: storm UUCP, Eugene, Oregon, United States Lines: 71 In article <30017@boulder.Colorado.EDU> fozzard@alumni.colorado.edu (Richard Fozzard) writes: >[2] "28.5 MIPS is not particularly meaningful" >Pretty lame. Have you actually *seen* one of these process a postscript >file or do a ray-trace or even just launch a simple application? I have, and >they really embarass even an '040 NeXT. Here at NOAA, we do climate simulations >that can take days - don't tell anyone around here that 28 MIPS isn't >meaningful. Yes, I have. At least, several ray trace jobs. Yes, 4.0 MFLOPS does make a difference over 3.0 or 2.0 MFLOPS. I wouldn't say "really embarass" an 040 NeXT, however. But there's always faster, and always cheaper. I could in no possible way afford a SPARCstation 2, though I am impressed with it's performance. If you want to really embarass any machine, compare the SPARC station 2 to an IBM Rios machine. The Rios that I have run ray traces on (a 320) shot through them in half the time that the SS2 did. So why aren't people rushing out to buy Rios machines instead of SPARCstations? (" I personally couldnt afford it, and I hate AIX to boot. ") I think that someone (or some department) that has purchased SPARCstation 1's and 1+'s last year will buy SPARCstation 2's. There is no reason not to. I think perhaps those who are about to buy their first series of workstations may consider the NeXT also, and perhaps buy it. While we're on the subject of scalable, when I am tired of my ("on it's way") NeXT's performance (in a year or so) I will most likely be able to put in another CPU board, perhaps with an 88000 in it, or 68050 or a 50 MHz 68040. >[3] "and with a crapola interface" >Again, I must doubt that you've used OpenWindows. It is in many ways >superior (and in many ways inferior, too) to NeXTStep; hardly is it >"crapola". Above all, it will run on *anything* supporting X. (We have >used it on Macs, HPs, DECs, and (obviously) Suns across a huge network, >even across the country over the internet. So far, to my knowledge, anything >developed in NeXTStep will run only on (you guessed it) other NeXTs. Not entirely true. I've seen NeXTstep on a Rios machine. But yes, much of what you say is true. I imagine that the preference of OpenWindows vs NeXTstep is personal opinion. I favor NeXTstep myself, though I think both are ok. If I had it my way, my system wouldn't be running NeXTstep or Openwindows... just plain old Xwindows and twm. >[4] "and set-up gymnastics" >The only thing you're even part right about. The NeXT is plug-and-play >alright, as long as you've got a homogenous network of NeXTs. As the prez >of the local NUG (also a full-time Sun/UNIX/network guru for the university) >found out when he tried to hook up my demo machine to an NFS network here, >those set up gymnastics can be as bad as any other UNIX machine. And even >if he had had the time to succeed hooking it up, all we could have done was >share files. Forget about any application interoperability. >Before criticizing Suns, Macs, etc. proponents of the NeXT should become >familiar with the other machines and the needs of users. Then, the realizable >benefits of the NeXT could be described. Above all, it must be realized that >the NeXT is not the right machine for EVERY user, that it has a (dare I use >that proscribed word?) niche. I think I am far more familiar with Sun than NeXT, as I have used them far more often than NeXTs. My father uses a SPARCstation (1+) for engineering work, needs the performance, and loves his Sun. Wouldn't change for the world... but many PC users wouldn't change for the world either. What they have works, albiet slowly, so they don't want to change. I really don't think that NeXT is going to push it's way into the niches that are occupied by sunlovers-- those engineers/whatever who need serious performance, the right software (that they are already using) and so on. The SPARCstations (even the SLC) offer serious performance, software is available. I think the NeXT is aimed more toward the High end PC/low end workstation (Sun 3/80) type of market. Well, we'll see. - Vareck