Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Holiness Message-ID: Date: 20 Nov 90 04:38:57 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston -- Department of Mathematics Lines: 103 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article ASC105@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >Holiness cannot be >earned by reading books or going through the motions in a church. You are correct in saying holiness cannot be earned. But the Holy Spirit does work faith and sanctification (becoming holy) through the means of the written word, and the sacraments of baptism and the Lord's Supper: "Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ." Romans 10:17 "For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of Gop. .... Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good." "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also -- not by the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God." 1 Peter 3:21 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word," Ephesians 5: 25,26 "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit," Titus 3:5 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to God's elect ... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the santifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:" 1 Peter 1:1,2 [This is also a good passage on the Trinity, BTW] "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. You forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." John 6:53-58. Thus 'reading books' particulary the Bible, does feed our faith, and taking part in the sacraments [going through the motions?] does the same. And all of these work sanctification [becoming holy] in the believer. > When a person accepts Christ in his heart and proclaims Him as Lord, his >heart gets changed. His heart is his spirit, the real person. The soul is >the mind, and the body is just an outer covering. The soul and body >REMAIN THE SAME when a person gets saved. ONLY the spirit is changed and >this is done by God, not by us. This distinction between the soul and the spirit seems rather novel and strange. > Now, this heart is holy, because if it wasn't holy and God puts his Holy >Spirit within it, it would kill the person. The Holy Spirit resides in >these reborn spirits. This, and most of the rest of the article, denies that the sinful nature is still present in the Christian. But Paul writes: "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me...." Romans 7:14ff Note that Paul speaks as a Christian. If he did not have the renewal of the Holy Spirit, he could not even 'want to' do what is good. For the unbeliever, there is no such struggle. He is wholely owned by Satan, and the Holy Spirit is not within him to contend with the sinful nature. David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran "I walk in danger all the way. The tho't shall never leave me That Satan, who has marked his prey, Is plotting to deceive me. This Foe with hidden snares May seize me unawares If e'er I fail to watch and pray. I walk in danger all the way. "I walk with angels all the way, They shield me and befriend me; All Satan's pow'r is held at bay When heav'nly hosts attend me; They are my sure defense All fear and sorrow hence! Unharmed by foes do what they may, I walk with angels all the way. "I walk with Jesus all the way, His guidance never fails me; Within His wounds I find a stay When Satan's power assails me; And by his footsteps led, My path I safely tread. In spite of ills that treaten may, I walk with Jesus all the way." --Jeg gaar i Fare, hvor jeg gaar, selected verses --Hans A. Brorson, 1734 My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston.