Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: scott@clmqt.marquette.mi.us (Scott Reynolds) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: "Grail Message" (was Re: Creation) Message-ID: Date: 20 Nov 90 04:38:28 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 63 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark T. Sandrock) writes: >As for the identity of Abd-ru-shin, this can be recognized by anyone who >takes the time and effort to examine the Grail Message objectively. Those >who cannot be objective would do best to just leave it alone. Mark, why do you think even for a moment that any human being can be objective? Scientists claim to be objective, also -- yet the best we can say is that scientists are _more_objective_ than most other people. They aren't truly objective, though; as human beings, we all have limited knowledge and individual experience that influence our perspective. I'm not saying objectivity is a bad idea, but in order to be truly unbiased we would have to be God Himself. >crf@tomato.princeton.edu (Charles Ferenbaugh) writes: >>It sounds as though >>the "Grail" writer is really trying to find a diplomatic way of saying, >>"Yes, the Bible is true, but only where it agrees with me and my own >>religion." >the Grail Message "only confirms what is good and right in the Bible". The logical extension of your own statement is that it _does_ reject what is _not_ good and true in the Bible. In essense, this is what Charles is saying; he personalized the statements that you yourself made. To reject the validity of the original recording of the manuscripts is to cast a shadow on Christianity as a whole. Attempting to find the right translation is a good thing, but saying the original text is in error is to open the door to the rewriting of God's Word. >And this idea is at the core of the Grail Message: the absolute Perfection >of the Creator and of His Creation. Can you explain why a Perfect Creator would allow his very Word to be recorded with significant error? I cannot seen reconcile these two ideas. Remember 2 Timothy 3:16, which says: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. >The >fact is that Jesus never denied the validity of the concept of reincarnation, >which was widely believed at that time, nor did He deny it when the Disciples >indicated their own belief in it ("Who had sinned, this man or his parents, >that he was born blind?") Your arguments on Spiritual sphere and karma have some merit; I certainly won't use these phrases, though, because as Charles said they have the "ring" of Eastern mysticism. However, the passage you cite in support of reincarnation (John 9:2) doesn't support your argument at all! The literal meaning of the word "parents" becomes quite evident later in the same chapter, when the man's parents are called before the Pharisees. >So how does one arrive at the truth? By objectively weighing and examining, >and not otherwise! By thinking freely and independently, as we are meant to. I beg to differ; one arrives at the truth by freely choosing Jesus as Lord and Savior and by studying God's own Word with the help of His Spirit. All truth originates in and from God, without whose help we have no hope of finding.