Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!ucsd!sdd.hp.com!think.com!linus!raybed2!rayssd!anomaly!ccc From: ccc@anomaly.sbs.com (Cole Calistra) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Citadel for the Amiga Message-ID: <365@anomaly.sbs.com> Date: 23 Nov 90 20:48:49 GMT Organization: Small Business Systems, Inc., Esmond, RI 02917 Lines: 71 carpent@SRC.Honeywell.COM (Todd Carpenter) writes: >In article (Jay Carlson) writes: >Jay> That package is Citadel-68k, a terribly direct port from the MS-DOS BBS >Jay> Citadel-86. >Jay> The policy of the author of Cit-86 has been no public access to source >Jay> code. While I can somewhat understand his reasons for keeping the >Jay> public away from source, his decision has meant a lack of competition >Jay> and progress for Cit-86 and its derivitive Cit-68k. Cit-68k has huge >Jay> performance problems due to unbuffered output to the console---on the >Jay> Amiga, character-by-character output is highly CPU intensive. Many >Jay> parts of Cit-68k show gross inattention to CPU usage; it is impossible >Jay> to use other applications while the BBS is up. >Bull. Perhaps you have not used the latest 3.31b release of Citadel. I always >have that running on my 2500/30, and I have *never* had performance problems >with my ray tracing, text editing, or any other tool I wish to multitask. The >latest release *did* speed up console output by a huge amount, so perhaps your >gripe is valid for earlier releases. And of course, I DO know how to use that >nice feature of the Amiga, called "priority," which allows me to dump the >Citadel to a lower priority so even if it wants to interefere, it doesn't. :) There you go. No performance problems on an 030. That must mean that it runs fine on an unaccelerated machine, right? WRONG. It was VERY slow when I ran it. The only reason there isn't acess to the source is because of myself and David Wright. We set out to make some changes, back when the source WAS released. We made the message headers on separate lines, like most normal BBS software, (if you've seen Cit, you know what I am talking about, the from, to, date, and network info are all on one line) we also started enabling sections of the code that he had disabled so that he could later come out with another "new" version that had these features that were always present, just disabled, we worked on improving the throughput with new serial IO routines, and new console IO routines, we added numerous features to the software. BUT the author, Jay something or other, didn't like us improving the software. He organized support on the Citadel net to ban our versions of the software. Eventually we gave up on our program, AmiDel, because of STadel-Ami was supposed to be released by Eric Griff, but he never released anything besides beta copies and those eventually fell off. (BTW. STadel was written by Jeff Parsons, not Eric Parsons) Therefore when the newer versions of Citadel started coming out for the Amiga, no source code was released, so we couldn't put in our new features. (We wanted our program to be developed concurrently with Citadel-68K so that they would remain compatible for networking purposes) >Jay> Several times, I have shown simple mods that would ease the Amiga >Jay> port's performance problem to the Cit-68k team; they rejected them >Jay> without consideration. This is not the sign of a project responsive >Jay> to its users. >Because the author is busier than #@$%, doesn't own an Amiga, and has to drive >a good distance to get access to one. The author, at least when I was using Citadel, did own an Amiga, he ran an Amiga BBS off of it. I do not know much about the current situation of Citdel today, but I think it is pretty ridiculous NOT to release the source code if you aren't going to be able to support your own program. I also have to agree with Jay, the Citadel users, mainly in Minnesota, are very arrogant and un- responsive to change! >Todd P. Carpenter Honeywell Systems and Research Center >voice: (612)782-7229 3660 Technology Drive, Minneapolis, MN 55418-1006 >domain: carpent@src.honeywell.com or Arkon%kryl@src.honeywell.com >bang-style: !srcsip!carpent Citadel: US 612 699 3106 (Kryl) >User Manual, p34, line 5: I am not authorized to have any opinions. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Cole Calistra UUCP: ...rayssd!anomaly!ccc Omni Development Systems INTERNET: ccc@anomaly.sbs.com "We thought it was a neat idea at the time.", Lt. Col. Oliver North =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=