Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!vsi1!zorch!xanthian From: xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Reorganization vote tidbits and Re: An AmigaVision Question Message-ID: <1990Nov29.011411.479@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> Date: 29 Nov 90 01:14:11 GMT References: <16059@cbmvax.commodore.com> <1990Nov27.020432.11108@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <309.275232e9@vger.nsu.edu> Organization: SF-Bay Public-Access Unix Lines: 128 manes@vger.nsu.edu writes: > xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >> karl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Karl Herrman - CATS) writes: >>> boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: >> [Description of AV_Text Purpose deleted] >> Is there someone at Commodore particularly in charge of making this kind >> of decisions to antagonize the user base? > IMSATT Corp. does AmigaVision programming for Commodore. I assume that > they have been tagged with this responsibility, however that might not > be the case. >> Last I heard, there are some 3000 different human languages. Don't you >> think you might be limiting your market just the teensiest bit by making >> distribution to these other language groups wait until you folks get >> around to finding someone who knows each language to do the translation >> for you? > I suspect of those 3000 languages only the languages that Commodore > has a market in would be supported. I believe that would limited to > around 10-15 languages (if that). French, German (HochDeutsch und PlattDeutsch), Danish, Swedish, Norse, Gaelic, Scottish, Welsh, Walloon, Finnish, Icelandic, Spanish, Dutch, Afrikaaner, Dravidian, Chinese (High and Low), Japanese (Three forms), Arabic, Hebrew, Portuguese, Korean, Philipean, Tagalog, Russian, Polish, Slovak, ... and that's just the ones I know of the native languages of those writing _me_ about the Amiga. >> As opposed, say, to putting the file out in well documented, easy to >> modify form, and letting the vast knowledge of the user base be brought to >> bear to get the port done in 1/10 the time and cost to Commodore, thereby >> boosting your sales and hastening the return on your software development >> investment. > Kent, I am surprised at you! No you're not, Mark, we've been friends a _long_ time. ;-) > Software generally comes from the manufacturer complete! Are you > suggesting that Commodore go ahead and ship the English version of > Amigavision to Germany, and the German users can translate it? Since English is the universal language of software development (as it is of aircraft and ship operation), releasing the package in English worldwide, and letting local developers have the information to write value added modules to cope with the local non-English facile population is an obvious approach to faster return on investment. I know from my experience with the Harvard Graphics development team that vendor produced "international" versions lag the English version by months to years, and by then your competition has incorporated your best inovations in their software and is competing with you head to head in your second markets. > I personally think that Commodore is starting to participate in the > world marketplace a bit better by providing support for the foreign > languages. Sure, and that wasn't my objection; considering the sales pattern for the Amiga, Commodore would be committing suicide to release _only_ English versions. I object to the _encryption_, deliberately obfuscating the process needed to port the package to a second language. How long is the Tagalog market expected to limit the machine to English speakers only? A damned long time if they have to wait until Commodore gets around to supporting such a small market. The immense success of open architecture as opposed to closed architecture hardware should have made its point by now: third party add-ons help sell your product, they don't compete with you directly. This applies just as well to software. A good part of the success of Lotus 123 can be laid to the follow on market products that improved its utility. >Support takes time. :-) Differentiate support from development. Note that allowing for third party modules doesn't at all prevent Commodore from releasing their own (much superior ;-) international port later, perhaps optionally as an upgrade to the English language versions at reasonable cost, just as they have incorporated the good ideas from ARP, FastFonts, pipes, and other public domain and commercial releases into their operating system upgrades, by adoption or purchase or license. >> Some of the thinking that comes out of CBM just staggers an intellect >> used to common sense. Note that this opinion has been my constant one for the last four years; the best machine, and the worst business practices holding it down. I've not made any secret of my opinions here over the years, and they are widely shared, from the evidence of other postings. > Kent, take a few minutes, get some rest, the newsgroup thingie is > catching up with you! > :-) Not really, the voting patterns with the speed of Internet make all the vote taker's effort exist in the first 48 hours; the next 19 days see a dribble of votes. I'm already within 35 votes or so of the total number received for the comp.sys.amiga.games vote, and I don't really expect more than another 150 or so votes, so my work is mostly over, especially since my awk scripts pretty much have already written the final report for me, except for 30 minutes or so of editing. The rest of the effort is countering Peter da Silva's effort to sabotage the whole vote, in his inimitable fashion, and lots of boring checks for one or two more votes in the mailbox. Pieces of cake, both. I'm far meaner than he is, and I have years of practice entertaining myself watching hull paint fade. The really good news is that I've only had about half a dozen vote ACKs fail to get through, almost all due to mail address parsing problems at pucc.princeton.edu, and most for votes from Ireland. >Your friend, I remember. Really I do. Sorry I don't write oftener; I've been moodier than usual recently. Too much isolation. > -mark= /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, ongoing comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.