Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!eci386!woods From: woods@eci386.uucp (Greg A. Woods) Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386 Subject: Re: Vermont Views Summary: why not c-scape or fast? Keywords: user interface Message-ID: <1990Nov28.192938.12298@eci386.uucp> Date: 28 Nov 90 19:29:38 GMT References: <4999@rsiatl.UUCP> <274AD9FB.218D@tct.uucp> Reply-To: woods@eci386.UUCP (Greg A. Woods) Organization: Elegant Communications Inc. Lines: 55 In article price@chakra.unl.edu (Chad Price) writes: > In <274AD9FB.218D@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: > >>It do not work through curses and instead they invented a "better idea". > > >This complaint is valid. Why invent /etc/vvtermcap when /etc/termcap > >is 90% of what you need? Although that last 10% includes most of the > >neat display features, like color escape codes. >[....] > >works best. And if the behavior isn't right for a given terminal, > >just edit /etc/vvtermcap; no biggy. >[....] > While creation of yet another termcap is a nusance (!!), since the regular > termcap does not support many of the nicer features, it seems the only > reasonable option. Nope. In fact, maintaining several different types of "termcap" databases is the worst possible nightmare for an administrator. I know, since I've done it (for curses, Word Era, Word Perfect, and Business Basic; and there were only three different types of terminals!). NEVER AGAIN! Uniplex almost got it right, though their system is a wee bit too "dumb" to work well. They attempt to automatically intuit what can be gathered from either terminfo or termcap, and convert to their own "database". However, their system is extremely complex to maintain, especially for site which has to maintain curses databases for other applications. In addition, Uniplex fails in tasks where curses shines (e.g. with the LINES/COLUMNS variables). Neither do they utilize all of the possible info in a termcap or terminfo entry (eg. acsc). Now, as for VV, I have no first-hand opinions. I refuse to use a package that does not use the existing facilities of UNIX properly. Curses (and termcap or terminfo) have done a wonderful job for many applications, and there is absolutely no need to re-invent them. I have used two packages which I would recommend to anyone needing a layer of functionality between curses and their application. The most complex and complete package is C-Scape from The Oakland Group. The least complex is a shareware package called fast from Apsen Scientific. Neither of these packages use anything more than bare curses (although fast will work with Aspen's enhanced curses). Both provide much of the advanced functionality for a character interface some people want. One other third-hand opinion I've heard about VV is it is difficult to use, and seems to require very convoluted and complex code. -- Greg A. Woods woods@{eci386,gate,robohack,ontmoh,tmsoft}.UUCP ECI and UniForum Canada +1-416-443-1734 [h] +1-416-595-5425 [w] VE3TCP Toronto, Ontario CANADA