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From: jg@crl.dec.com (Jim Gettys)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: The final chapter?: A tirade about inefficient software & systems
Message-ID: <1990Nov27.221609.20241@crl.dec.com>
Date: 27 Nov 90 22:16:09 GMT
References: <9011232028.AA24515@islanders.> <1990Nov27.012631.15725@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1990Nov27.170031.23812@mcs.anl.gov>
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Reply-To: jg@crl.dec.com (Jim Gettys)
Organization: DEC Cambridge Research Lab
Lines: 37

In article <1990Nov27.170031.23812@mcs.anl.gov>, korp@atlantis.ees.anl.gov (Peter Korp) writes:
> 
> I'd be interested in having a copy of that. What I find absolutly amazing
> is how every new release of X looks more and more like NeWS. Shared memory
> extensions, circular windows, PostScript imaging, synthentic input extensions,
> and I don't know what else. Don't you think one of the reasons Sun was able
> to implement the X11/NeWS server as cleanly as they did was because of the
> great similarity of X11 and NeWS?

The same thing can be said about NeWS... Selections, properties, etc.  Also
remember that NeWS was looking over our shoulders as well, during its development,
an advantage we did not have, as Sun was close mouthed until NeWS was announced
(prematurely in my book; the first version was buggy, and kissed off the
imaging market entirely, due to lack of color map capability, for example;
I may not like color maps, but they enable a class of applications I used
to make my living writing.  From my perspective, I think it very unfortunate that 
Gosling et. al. were not allowed more time.  Once things hit the street,
it is very hard to revisit any major design choices.).

> In computer terms 1986 is a *long* time ago. I think it speaks well of Goslings
> "research effort" that his design has remained relatively unchanged since
> then.

As has X11.  It has been about as stable in the same period of time.

> You spoke of X11 *having* to be developed quickly due to X10s acceptance in
> the UNIX world, I think the battle scars of this rapid development still show.

As does NeWS.  I was quite disappointed when it was announced that it had
not faced up to certain issues I reguard as essential (and are present in X,
and have been for a long time).  Retrofitting them into NeWS afterwards has
been a painful process.

Both systems explore different points in a very rich design space; I happen
to believe some fundamental choices in NeWS are wrong, and James and Dave think
likewise about X.  Such is life.  If you prefer one over the other, so be it.
				- Jim