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From: stpeters@dawn.crd.ge.com (Dick St.Peters)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Are you asking ME whether it's the hawk or the gun who is cruel?
Summary: Guns and hawks aren't cruel - people sometimes are
Message-ID: <14180@crdgw1.crd.ge.com>
Date: 25 Nov 90 22:29:36 GMT
References: <1990Nov17.002351.25330@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <3159@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> <25889@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU>
Sender: news@crdgw1.crd.ge.com
Reply-To: stpeters@dawn.crd.ge.com (Dick St.Peters)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D, Schenectady, NY
Lines: 35
Disclaimer: GE would charge for its opinions.  These are mine.

In article <25889@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> dragon@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Sam Conway) writes:
>I've been watching the argument about who is more "merciful", a shotgun
>or a hawk.  Not only do I find it the most absolutely silly topic
>of conversation I've ever encountered 8-)...but it seems that some of
>those involved have not had the opportunity to observe hawks feeding.

I've never had the opportunity, which is why I asked whether it was
really true that a falcon immediately kills what it catches.  Because
my news server went out to lunch, I didn't get to see any responses,
and I don't know if Sam's comment was provoked by some thread started
by my question.

But Sam, I think you must have missed a point somewhere.  As you say,
it would be pretty silly to argue whether a shotgun or hawk is cruel,
so I have to presume that the issue was which *human* was being more
cruel, the one using the gun or the one using the hawk (falcon?).
That's not a silly question, although it ought to be phrased without a
presumption that either is cruel - and belongs in another newsgroup.

>So, is Nature cruel?  Are hawks cold-blooded?  That can only be judged
>by those who want to impose our own definitions upon Nature.  In short,
>it does what is necessary.

I think the right way to phrase this is that cruelty and mercy are
*concepts* that don't apply to Nature.  They're human moral values;
asking if a hawk is cruel is like asking if a rainbow is heavy or if a
bird's call is yellow.

Anyway, I still don't know if falcons kill their prey immediately as
was asserted in the posting that prompted my question.  (I'm also
curious why Sam's posting arrived here long after some from farther
away that seemed to refer to it.)
--
Dick St.Peters, GE Corporate R&D, Schenectady, NY
stpeters@dawn.crd.ge.com	uunet!dawn.crd.ge.com!stpeters