Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!emory!att!cbnews!cbnews!military From: zimmer@cod.nosc.mil (Thomas L. Zimmerman) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Are Warships Over-Manned? Message-ID: <1990Nov30.023832.10591@cbnews.att.com> Date: 30 Nov 90 02:38:32 GMT References: <1990Nov29.004354.21100@cbnews.att.com> Sender: military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego Lines: 78 Approved: military@att.att.com From: zimmer@cod.nosc.mil (Thomas L. Zimmerman) >From article <1990Nov29.004354.21100@cbnews.att.com>, by crowl@cs.rochester.edu (Lawrence Crowl): > > > I cannot see a need for more than 50 men on a ship, unless it carries > aircraft (including helicopters). The jobs I can imagine are: > > commander (whoever is in charge for the shift), helm, > weapons control (2), weapons loading (2), radar/sonar operators (2), > cook, and janitor > Hmmm, you've obviously never spent any time on a ship underway. Even during normal peacetime conditions if my ship is working with anyone else (say maybe another frigate nearby, the rest of our squadron further away and our helo up in the air) we fully utilize two officers on the bridge to maintain communications, track other traffic in the area, decode communications signals, give orders to the helm, keep the captain informed as to what's going on, control use of the ships alarms and announcing system and a few other details. Now down in CIC we need at least a CIC watch officer to supervise and handle the rest of the communications chores (everyone always seems to want to talk at the same time), an enlisted air traffic controller for the helo, a couple operators for the NTDS system to keep track of the other ships/planes/subs in the area, and a couple sonar operators if we're tracking subs. Let me see, now we still need a helmsman on the bridge, a navigator to check things now and them to make sure we're where we should be, a signalman to do any close in communication using flags, flashing light, etc. Prudent seamanship requires at least a bow and stern lookout too. That's 12 so far. Now I still need at least one engineer on duty in Central Control and one enlisted guy to do the sounding and security watch (actually visit the spaces to see problems before they become serious), at least one duty radioman to handle the non-realtime communications, and a cook (two or more in reality, but I'm trying to keep this small). The above was a very bare minimum. If we were at actual combat conditions I do needs things like weapons console operators, people to load and fix the weapons, damage control teams, more officers in CIC to handle the increased level of communication, data flow and decision making (yes this sometimes makes the problem worse, but there is not enough automation on a small ship to afford any alternative). In all of this I still have not considered the trained technicians to maintain and repair everything, the supply folks who take of food, pay, laundry, haircuts, the ship's store or the admin folks who take care of the unavoidable paperwork. Now, lets say we do go with only a three section watch - so we only have to multiply the above personnel by three for those that are needed on duty all the time. After a week or so at sea people are going to start getting real tierd and maintenance, administrative functions, etc are going to slide. A three section watch typically means that I spend 4 hours on watch and the 8 off. At first that doesn't sound too bad until you realize that the off time has to cover sleeping, eating, personal care, training, maintenance and repairs that require more than the normal watch section to complete, getting ready for inspections, writing evaluations, taking care of discipline problems, writing operations plans, conducting required tests on equipment, etc. None of the above even considers the pertibations introduced when you go to flight quarters to launch or recover the helo or set the special sea and anchor detail to enter or leave port. I know that to the casual observer you wouldn't think it would take that many bodies - but it does. Oh yea, I almost forgot the rarely mentioned but necessary need to provide some degree of redundancy in case of losses during battle. Its a bit difficult to just call up reenforcements when a ship is two-thousand miles away from the nearest land. Lee Zimmerman, Scientist, Naval Ocean Systems Center In my other life - LT Lee Zimmerman, USNR of the USS Mahlon S. Tisdale (FFG-27) zimmer@nosc -- Lee Zimmerman, Naval Ocean Systems Center, Code 421, San Diego, CA, 92152 {arpa,mil}net: zimmer@nosc.mil uucp: {ihnp4,akgua,decvax,dcdwest,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!nosc!zimmer