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From: joseph@cs.albany.edu (Jody Richardson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: grail message question
Message-ID: <Nov.21.01.01.31.1990.16123@athos.rutgers.edu>
Date: 21 Nov 90 06:01:33 GMT
Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu
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Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

There is much I do not know regarding this discussion.  I only
just started reading this group and only the last couple of
messages on this thread remain in our spool.  Nevertheless, one
part of Mark's last message jumped out at me and I would like to
ask a question.

Sandrock writes:

>Or take the concept of reincarnation, which has been much discussed before.
>Why not try to think about it and evaluate the concept on its own merits,
>instead of simply rejecting it as "unchristian" because it was not recorded
>that Jesus ever spoke of it?  Because the fact is that reincarnation was a
>part of Church doctrine for hundreds of years after the life of Christ. The
>fact is that Jesus never denied the validity of the concept of reincarnation,
>which was widely believed at that time, nor did He deny it when the Disciples
>indicated their own belief in it ("Who had sinned, this man or his parents,
>that he was born blind?")

Mark, 

I'm not convinced that this paragraph makes any sense.

1) If what you say is true (that Jesus and the Disciples
acknowledged reincarnation), then it would seem to follow that 
anyone of that day who was interested in the disposition of
their soul would acknowledge reincarnation, including Nicodemus
since he was a Pharisee and taught people like the Disciples.
In that case, why would he be so surprised when Jesus told him he
must be born again? It seems unlikely that it's a translation
problem. It is clear he knew Jesus was talking about
rebirth by his response citing physical birth.  

2) Doesn't the quote you cited ("Who had sinned,...") make much
more sense in the light of OT teachings regarding the sins of
people being visited on their children and their children's
children to the Nth generation, than in the darkness [sorry :-)]
of absent OT reincarnation references?

Finally, I would like to know the references citing reincarnation
as part of Church doctrine in the hundreds of years following the
life of Christ.

Joseph Richardson     | "If you don't get a goodnight kiss, you 
joseph@cs.albany.edu  |  get Kafka dreams." -- Hobbes