Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: boulder!boulder!marlatt@ncar.ucar.edu (MARLATT STUART WARREN) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Thorn in the flesh Message-ID: Date: 27 Nov 90 09:08:31 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 52 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article timh@ide.com (Tim Hoogasian) writes: >In article ASC105@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >> >>The New Testament verse in 2nd Corinthians 12 is not >>clear until you read the Old Testament. I think Paul was refering to >>the Old Testament when he used the word "thorn". > >I don't agree, because Paul refers to his struggle with sin in other >areas of his letters ("Who will save me from this body of death?", etc.) >Though Paul never tells us specifically what his 'thorn in the flesh' is, >in his letter to the Galatians, it would appear that he has some form of >eye trouble, since he talks about how (if they could) the Galatians would >have gladly taken out their eyes and given them to him. I have also heard some pretty strong arguments to attribute Paul's "thorn" to be a group of Jews who followed him around, spreading a teaching that Gentile Christians _must_ obey the Jewish laws. I.e., that Christ's death was not sufficient - His death + the law was. Much of Galatians is a rebuttal to this view. One item of note: most of the Scripture is reasonably plain on important points. The fact that Paul does not precisely identify this thorn would indicate that the identification is not crucial. Probably Paul did not identify the thorn since this would probably lead to an incorrect focus on this item. Rather, he leaves it open. Hence, rather than knowing that His grace is sufficient for eye problems, we know that His grace is sufficient for the more generic "thorn." > >> Is it God's will to heal us? YES! > >Fair enough, though obviously we're not all healed. And presumably this >should account not only for physical healing, but emotional/psychological >trauma as well. I certainly agree that by not asking for God to heal us, >we are implicitly doubting His desire (and capacity?) to do the job. But >it's important to realize that He doesn't always do what we ask, for His >own reasons. (If He did, I know many situations in my own life that would >be very very very different! ;-( ) > More importantly, it is God's will that we are obediant to Him. We are commanded to pray for the sick. So we pray - after that, it is in His hands. My prayers can't so much as heal a headache - but I am commanded to pray. I agree - sometimes (maybe even most of the time) we don't see a healing (at least not an instantaneous healing). Sometime we do. I don't know why - but that does not mean I shouldn't pray. Someday I hope to know more - hopefully, I will ultimately have the answer. Till then, I will seek His face, study, pray. Stuart W. Marlatt It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, If is the glory of kings to seek a matter out.