Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!sun-barr!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A Question Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 90 05:10:15 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of NC at Charlotte Lines: 125 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , brown@cs.utk.edu (Lance A. Brown) writes: > > He said some things that may have surprised some of the people at > the service. Specifically the pastor spoke about how Jesus would > "separate the sheep from the goats" and that the criteria Jesus will > use is one of works, and not faith. By ignoring the rest of the Bible, this sounds as if God will judge everyone according to works. Well, the Bible tells us that this is not so. There will be at least two types of judgements. The first will involve judging whether or not a person will have eternal life or eternal damnation. Those who have salvation will have eternal life, those who do not will have eternal damnation. Then, God will again judge those who have salvation. These are the ones that He will judge according to their works. So, the judgement that you mention above is not a judgement of eternal life or death, but a judgement to decide which rewards are in store for those who already have salvation. > Thinking about it, this would mean that many people who have never > stepped into a christian church would be among the sheep and many who > went to church each Sunday and gave 5% of the income yearly, etc. > would be set among the goats. Exactly. However, please note again that this is a judgement for those who already have salvation. Now, regarding fairness, who do you think is better? A person who rarely ever attends church but spends large quantities of times and money helping others in need, or a person who attends church every Sunday and gives 5% of his/her income but wouldn't even speak to a poor black person, loan a hand to a brother in need, and continually gossips and backbites. You see, going to church and giving money can be turned into meaningless, mechanical acts. God will judge us for the spirit with which we give and worship. The Bible even tells us in several places that a gift given in the "wrong manner" is unacceptible to God. Now, please note that I am 110% for going to church and tithing, and that I am in no way condoning the abscence of either. > This led me to what I believe is a possible contradiction (just > one?!?!) in the christian doctrine. It seems really weird to me that > "God" would create the human race with free will, punish us for > dis-obeying him, offer salvation if we "choose" to return to him, and > then basically discard everyone else. This seems really arrogant and > callous to me. > God gives everyone the opportunity to follow Him. If we reject His good graces, then He holds us responsible. If I offered food to you, and you refused it and ended up starving half to death, would you then blame me because of your hunger? Of course not, because I offered food to you and YOU REFUSED to take it. Spiritual food and salvation follow the same manner. > Also, what happens to the people who are NOT explicitly christian, > but still live lives that "qualify" them for salvation on judgement > day? Are they also relegated to damnation because they did not > "choose" God and Christ? > I'm glad that you asked this, as it gives the opportunity to explain an extremely common misconception. First, there is no such thing as a life that qualifies you for salvation. Paul is very explicit about telling us that even Abraham was justified by faith and not by works. What God is looking for is not our actions but our attitude towards Him. As we all know, there are people who will not have the opportunity to hear witnessing from a Christian nor will they be able to read the Bible. God says that He has written His laws upon the hearts of man. Thus, those who do not have the written word, or the Bible, will be held responsible for the laws in their hearts. Since they do not have the written word, they will be held to a lesser degree of responsibility than those of us who do. Thus, a person who does not call himself a Christian can have salvation, but only if that person does not have access to the written word. I personally believe that God knows that these people would be practicing Christians if they had the knowledge. Now, this in no way means that other religions will bring salvation: they will not. To illustrate, I have seen this type of phenominon in a few people from Islamic countries who have had little interaction with Christians. Many of these people reject the Islamic beliefs of temporary marriage, polygamy, and "holy war" even though Islam teaches that these practices should be followed. Yet, these people defend Islam to the hilt because it is the only religion that they know. Yet, their personal practices are similar to those of Christians. It is my opinion that these people are following the laws that God has written on their hearts, not the laws found in Islam. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Lance A. Brown brown@cs.utk.edu > 3500 Sutherland Avenue, Apt. L-303 Graduate Student in Computer Science > Knoxville, TN 37919 Sun SparcStations are Neat! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > I would not want to say that all religions are equally true, If you are a Christian, then you will say that only ONE religion is true, and that ONE religion is Christianity. but until > we see him face to face in the next life we cannot expect to have a > completely accurate view of God, and God may be willing to be accepted > in forms that are varying distances from his true form. I'm not quite sure what you intended to say here, but what you said can be construed as saying that other religions will get you to Heaven. This is totally false. Anyone who has knowledge of Christianity and then chooses to follow Buddism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam or whatever, does not have salvation and will be eteranlly damned. The key here is the extent of a person's knowlege. And don't forget, as Christians, it is our responsibility to teach others this knowledge. [I was not saying that the other religion would get you into heaven, but that your response to God would. (This is of course also true for Christians.) I was in fact thinking primarily of the case of people who had not encountered Christianity. However I would rather leave these judgements to God. There are encounters and there are encounters. What about the Jew who has seen Christians only as persecutors? I can easily imagine circumstances where becoming a Christian would be a violation of God's will. The fact that such situations exist is of course a serious matter for the Church, for which we will no doubt be held to account. --clh]