Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!sun-barr!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lieuwen@mycella.cs.wisc.edu (Dan Lieuwen) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Validity of Baptism Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 90 05:11:54 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept Lines: 39 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu !!4) People suffer because they are people. !! !!Suffering is simply one of the phenomena we experience as human beings !!equipped with the given sensory, motor, and cognitive facilities. !!Consider suffering as an experience with a strong negative affect, not !!unlike a burn on the skin. Does it not seem reasonable that Adam/Eve !!(pre-fall) were capable of experiencing this type of pain? Then why not !!the suffering type? One might just as well ask the question, "why do !!people laugh?" or "why is an orgasm pleasurable?". These are states, or !!experiences, with a stong positive affect. !! !!> In general I would agree that the fact that some people suffer and !!> others do not is unjust. !! !!I would not agree. Is it unjust that I am 6'5" and most men are 5'10" !!or so? Did God intend a race of clones? I don't think so (based upon !!a line of reasoning I'd be happy to share if anyone seriously thinks !!that it is a possibility). Is it just (fair) that some people laugh !!more than others? Suffering and height are incomparable differences. To experience PAIN was probably possible in the pre-fall world because pain has certain useful functions--like keeping you from doing damage to your body. Anything physical can (probably) be harmed. In the fallen world much of the suffering is unjust because it arises out of unjust situations. Political and economic oppression contribute much to the sum total of human misery. Forms of suffering other than useful pain strike me as incompatable with a perfect world as they would serve no useful purpose in such a world. People can become closer to God through suffering (so suffering does serve a useful purpose sometimes) in our world--but that would be unnecessary in an unfallen world. Dan -- --Dan