Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!att!linac!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: stevenw@wotan.sps.mot.com (Steven Weintraub) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: intermarraige Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 90 07:46:51 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 87 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu This is a what Kent P Stiegler writes: > I'm a Jewish guy with a question about how intermarraiges are handled > these days. If you have experience with this situation, I would greatly > appreciate you sharing your views with me, as I am very confused about it. Well, I have some experience. I also can give you some information on the traditional law part. For some background, I am married to a convert. When we first met eight years ago, Tina (my wife) was interested in Judaism and wanted to study more. When we were married five years ago, she still had not started more than a shallow study. She actively started studing for conversion 3 and a half years ago, and has been Jewish a year last Thursday. > Firstly, I am not seeking an ethics-argument about whether it's good or bad. > Obviously it's against the laws of Torah, but being a Reform Jew, it > would not be the first time I have disobeyed the letter of the law. Just as a rhetorical question. If Judaism is not important to you, why remain Jewish. Marriage is the most important decision you will mak (besides from having children). If Judaism isn't important to influence this decision, shouldn't you just drop the pretence of being Jewish. I don't mean to be nasty with this question, but I do think it is something to think about. (Just so I don't seen to much like a hypocrite, when I married my wife, I was fairly confident that she would eventually convert). > Secondly, I understand that the "rules", if any, regarding the appropriate > program for an actual ceremony between a Jew and a Gentile do not exist > in our traditional prayer or law-books. The Torah says that a Jew cannot > marry a Gentile. Yet there are reform Synagogues and reform Rabbis that > participate in intermarriages. Who decides how to resolve this apparent > contradiction? How is the ceremony conducted? First of all, let's get the easy ones out of the way. No Orthodox or Conservative Rabbi will marry you. Either would have his smicha (rabbinical diploma) removed. The Reform movement is actively discouraging their Rabbi's >From performing marriages with mixed symbolism. Reform Rabbis will still perform mixed marriages, but are moving away from it. > I have attended two intermarraige weddings, both of them between male > Jewish friends and Catholics. The first was handled simply in a courtroom > by a JP without any denominational references. The parents could not > resolve their problem, the couple didn't want to bother arguing about it > anymore, so they just kept it simple. When I married my wife (the first time), we used a JP. To have vows in a ceremony that are meaningless to one or the other party demeans the marriage, the ceremony, and the intent of the whole occassion. I just went to a JP wedding for a friend, and she broke out giggling when asked if she would love, honor, and OBEY. What did it really mean when she finally said I do? To add in religious vows which are meaningless to one or the other party, also demeans the religion involved. > Now, I know Josh, and he is a wimp. He does not think much of his parents > and probably does not realize how seriously he dishonered them by repeating > his vows with Christian wording. But could he have retained a Rabbi and > a Priest to do a dual-demoninational wedding? Is there a resolution? I actually do not think Josh is a wimp. It is very easy to bury one's head in the sand and ignore the details. Of course this attitude is too prevalent in our society as it is (but's that another discussion). What did it mean to Josh to vow in the name of the Pater, Fillus, Et Spirtu Sactum? Does Josh feel the vow is binding. Probably not because of it, but rather despite it. As for a dual-demoninational wedding; that's is a problem. As I mentioned early, only a Reform rabbi will perform one. And the Reform movement is actively discouraging this. The resolution is the JP wedding. Why bring religion into it. If neither party is religious enough not to intermarry, why bring it into the ceremony. If it's not going to be part of their life together, it shouldn't be there at the start. (BTW - I did remarry my wife in a Jewish ceremony just after she converted) I know this is the views of one person, and I don't mean to get on a soap box, but I hope you find what I say useful. I am fairly well conversant on the Jewish laws involved and the feeling of all the major movements of Judaism on the issue, so please feel free to ask any questions you might have. enough from this mooncalf - Steven ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven R Weintraub | O Lord, ...!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!stevenw | let me talk gently, Motorola Inc. Austin, Texas | for I might have to eat my (512) 891-3023 (office) (512) 453-6953 (home) | words tomorrow. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------