Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ncar!gatech!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: vm0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vincent Paul Mulhern) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A Question Message-ID: Date: 30 Nov 90 09:28:08 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 73 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu > Excerpts from netnews.soc.religion.christian: 29-Nov-90 Re: A Question > Frank Farkas@eng.sun.com (4704) > >the service. Specifically the pastor spoke about how Jesus would > >"separate the sheep from the goats" and that the criteria Jesus will > >use is one of works, and not faith. > Your pastor was 100% correct. In every case judgement is mentioned by > the Bible it is always says that we will be judged by our works, or by > our fruiths. We don't have a single case where it is said that we will > be > judged by our faith. No, but we have lots of cases where it is said that we'll be saved by it. Check out Romans 3 21-end. And how about John 3:16? I've always understood that "separate the sheep from the goats" referred to salvation and not to judgement. I affirm what Elizabeth Tallant said regarding this...that there will be a judgment of those who are saved after the others are separated from God's people. In Galatians 3, Paul says that those who are trying to gain salvation by works are being foolish, and that they have been bewitched. Woe be to the bewitchers! Salvation is something the body of Christ had better get to understand. Jesus came here precisely BECAUSE it is impossible to work my way to the Lord. We're told that the righteousness of men is as filthy rags to God. How in the world could we ever earn salvation? I count myself blessed that I can identify the specific moment I was saved. I'd tried to figure out for 20 years what to do to avoid going to hell. Nothing I did was ever good enough, and I knew it. But somebody finally told me that it took an individual, intentional, rational realization that Jesus is Lord of everything, and I am part of that everything. I recognized His supremacy, and did what Romans 10 9-10 says to do. If I had died a moment before I heard what I did, I'd be in hell. There is no doubt at all. I am not mistaken or misguided about this. All the years of honest, intentional striving to do good would not have mattered AT ALL. If I had died as I said 'amen' after praying with my friend, I'd be in heaven. No uncertainty. No doubt. Not everyone experienced this that way. As I said...I count myself blessed. But God knows what's in a person's heart, and so does that person. If a person honestly believes Jesus is Lord, and he will confess that, then he doesn't have to do anything else to be saved. (being baptized is something Jesus said to do, and I don't think you acknowledge someone as Lord and then disobey them...but I'm not willing to say you'll go to hell if you aren't baptized, too.) Not everyone makes a decision in one specific moment like I did, but in each person's heart, either He is Lord or He isn't*. God knows, and they know. (*I'm not addressing the issue of the African savage, etc. etc.) Finally, about James 2. a few points... 1) James is writing to Christians, not people who need salvation. 2) He does NOT say 'works instead of faith'. He says 'Since you have faith, put it to work for others.' 3) He's talking about dealing with the needs of others. If we really believe that God is willing to meet that need, then YOU meet theirs, and let God meet yours. THAT is LIVING faith. James is not addressing the topic of salvation. He's talking about whether you're acting according to your faith or to your laziness. I have a constant struggle with this myself (so did Paul, and every Christian between us). But it has no bearing on whether or not I will go to heaven. Be careful to take passages in their possible context. In conclusion, I'd offer a warning. We have to be right, and not just sincere and committed to Jesus, when we teach. James 3:1 warns us to be right. Jesus said woe be unto him who brings a stumbling block to others...better that he be drowned than do that. Yes, doing good works is VITAL to being a servant of the Lord, avoiding hypocrisy, and being a sign to others. But saying salvation is determined by this is to deny grace, exalt ourselves, and put to shame the redemptive sacrifice God provided. Jesus is Lord... -Vince Mulhern