Xref: utzoo alt.folklore.computers:7717 comp.misc:10754 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!cbmvax!snark!eric From: eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc Subject: Re: MULTICS and the Jargon File Message-ID: <1YgzZ0#1bb89X3cQmgD00tBfF8KX0N9=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> Date: 5 Dec 90 17:13:01 GMT References: <1YfTW4#8MK9Xf8YJtZH970VXl0fFB3R=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> <1990Dec3.193049.8771@sctc.com> <12248@milton.u.washington.edu> Lines: 48 Back-References: In <12248@milton.u.washington.edu> Mark Crispin wrote: > The other major objectionable thing about the new jargon file (I have > marked up hundreds of minor things in a hardcopy of a version of a few > months ago) is the banishment of all the PDP-10 entries to a separate > appendix. That stuff belongs back in the main body. I'm considering it. My problem is that while the PDP-10 isn't quite dead, it and a lot of the PDP-10 derived slang are no longer alive *in hackerdom*. You should notice that there are in fact a fair number of PDP-10-derived terms still in the main body -- BITBLT, PUSHJ/POPJ, MOBY spring to mind. Those are the ones still in use. > The PDP-10 may be dead, but there are still a lot of corpses twitching > out there, and will be for a long long time. There are many more > PDP-10 systems running *today* than there ever were Multics systems. > I don't know if there are even any Multics systems running today. Eh? I've been told that, leaving out the odd university relic and that museum piece in Sweden, there are exactly *two* active PDP-10 sites left and one of them is CompuServe. > Unbelievably, the extreme efforts to flush the PDP-10 extend to TECO, > dialects of which continue to run on far more computers today than > have ever run EMACS!! Again, this runs counter to what I think I know. When you consider that EMACS has propagated to a lot of different varieties of those UNIX boxen out there, I doubt it's true. I relegated TECO to the Appendix because at this point it's something hackers tell war stories about but don't *use*. TECOisms are no longer `live' slang. > I agree with toning down the extreme anti-Unix bias in the old Jargon > file, especially as most of those of us who made the remarks are now > themselves in the Unix camp. However, the example of the usage > "deserves to lose" should restore the published version's use of > "Unix" instead of "Multics" ["Boy, anybody who tries to use Unix > deserves to lose!" -- a statement which remains true to this day]. > That particular line has special historical and sentimental value. I didn't detect any `extreme anti-UNIX bias' in either of the two old versions (jargon.txt and Steele-1983), except possibly in the one remark you cite. My decision: it now reads `MESS-DOS' (accurately reflecting current hackish sentiment) but I have added a parenthetical note to the effect that ITS fans used to say this of UNIX. -- Eric S. Raymond = eric@snark.thyrsus.com (mad mastermind of TMN-Netnews) Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com