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From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Jargon File Editorial Philosophy
Message-ID: <12418@milton.u.washington.edu>
Date: 6 Dec 90 04:35:59 GMT
References: <1Yh2D8#44K9D41f8QQk5qw1fx64Q7TX=eric@snark.thyrsus.com>
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In article <1Yh2D8#44K9D41f8QQk5qw1fx64Q7TX=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
>ISSUE #1: THE PAST VS. THE PRESENT

>I think it would betray the hacker spirit to shackle the Jargon File to its
>past. I want today's budding hackers to be able to dive into it and learn
>about the culture as it exists *today*. I want to set a precedent for some
>bright-eyed youngster around the year 2000 to be able to honorably retire
>some of the slang *I* added from his/her version 3 for the excellent reason
>that it's no longer `live'.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

If possible, I would like to bring in slang and folklore from the
1960's, NOT delete it or relegate it to an appendix (for later
deletion).

The world is ill-served by censoring stuff that some Winston Smith
thinks can be "retired."

After all, EMACS came from the world which you seem to be so eager to
bury and forget.  It is significant that it came from that world and
not from the Unix world.

>ISSUE #3: INCLUDE MORE FOLKLORE?
>What do I do about this kind of material? Include it in appendices?

*This* is the stuff that belongs in appendices, not lexical entries.

>ISSUE #4: PROPER-NAME ENTRIES
>
>Some jargon-file entries refer to the user or full names of hackers who are
>now or were at some time famous.

Once again, deletion of history ill-serves the future.  A lot of
valuable 1950's and 1960's hacker history has been *lost* forever
because of attitudes such as yours.

>However, I also do not want to be seen seen as arbitrarily cutting people off
>from whatever share of notoriety they justly earned. Am I going to be flamed
>if I drop these entries? More importantly, am I going to *deserve* to be
>flamed?

Yes, and yes.

>This question has a sharper bite for me than it might because I'd already
>had more influence on the culture than most even before I started editing
>the file.

It all depends upon what area of the "culture" you are talking about.
I've been famous on the net for 15 years, although not as much in the
Unix world.  I prefer not to brag about my past accomplishments though.

Personally, I've never heard of some of the entries you added; nor has
anyone else I've talked to.  That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be
in there; but it does indicate that you should not be taking such a
superior tone.
 _____   | ____ ___|___   /__ Mark ("Gaijin") Crispin "Gaijin! Gaijin!"
 _|_|_  -|- ||   __|__   /  / R90/6 pilot, DoD #0105  "Gaijin ha doko?"
|_|_|_|  |\-++-  |===|  /  /  Atheist & Proud         "Niichan ha gaijin."
 --|--  /| ||||  |___|    /\  (206) 842-2385/543-5762 "Chigau. Omae ha gaijin."
  /|\    | |/\| _______  /  \ FAX: (206) 543-3909     "Iie, boku ha nihonjin."
 / | \   | |__|  /   \  /    \MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU  "Souka. Yappari gaijin!"
Hee, dakedo UNIX nanka wo tsukatte, umaku ikanaku temo shiranai yo.


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