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From: paradis@acestes.UUCP (Jim Paradis)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: Where is MINIX going?
Keywords: MINIX
Message-ID: <114@acestes.UUCP>
Date: 2 Dec 90 11:11:30 GMT
References: <61262@bbn.BBN.COM>
Reply-To: paradis@acestes.UUCP (Jim Paradis)
Distribution: comp
Organization: Alberichs Rings & Things
Lines: 77


In article <61262@bbn.BBN.COM> saustin@bbn.com (Steve Austin) writes:
>1)	Why is Prentice-Hall jacking the price up and who is getting the money?
>	While I realize that MINIX 1.5 is an improvement on earlier
>	versions, it seems to me that it is partially improved by the users
>	group. So who is getting the extra money? I would hope that it is the
>	programmers who contribute to MINIX, but if (as I suspect)
>	Prenitce-Hall is trying to milk what it thinks is a cash cow, they
>	can take a walk. There are other, cheaper, versions of UNIX for the
>	PC.

The reason for the price increase is that the package got bigger and
better.  The $80 price when MINIX first came out got you a box of
eight floppies.  Period.  No documentation, nothing.  If you wanted
documentation, you bought "The Book" (another $40).  The new $170
price reflects the additional costs of producing a package of seventeen
floppies plus documentation.  P-H isn't just "milking this like a cash
cow"; they're offering significantly more value, and adjusting the
price accordingly.

BTW, what "other, cheaper versions of UNIX for the PC" did you have
in mind?  Certainly none of the SysV derivatives; they're all mucho
$$$.  PCNX?  A total joke, even though it does come with source.
Coherent?  Nice as far as it goes, but no source.  Face it, MINIX is
the only OS out there which offers full source AND a vibrant user
community which is continually making new additions.  In fact, thanks
to that user community, I was able to keep my investment in MINIX
down to my original $80:  Starting with the 1.1 disks which I had
on my shelf from a long time ago, I upgraded to 1.2, then 1.3, then
1.5, then to Bruce's 386 version.  With the help of numerous other
packages (freely offered by members of this user community), I am
able to post this article to you from my home MINIX machine.

>2)	What is going to happen to the price when MINIX gets virtual memory?
>	It seems to me that various dedicated souls are working on
>	implementing VM for free. Can I expect to see another price hike
>	when this happens. If so, who gets the money?

Depends.  If VM and 386 support are included in 1.6 and the additional
support requires significantly more disks or documentation, then yes
you may see a price hike... but (IMHO) ONLY if the additional media
cost warrants it.  From what I've seen of MINIX pricing trends, it has
always been priced fairly to reflect the amount of material supplied.
I expect this trend to continue.

>3)	On a less emotional note, what is the max size of program you can
>	run on MINIX for a 386. If it runs in the same mode as an 8086,
>	I suppose the answer is 640k. Since Glen's information sheet
>	mentionned that people are working on 32bit MINIX for the 386,
>	I suppose that means that the 386 operates in brain-dead mode.

If you use 1.5 out of the box, then the biggest program you can run
on a 386 (or a 286 or an 8088) is 64K code/64K data.  If you run
in 32-bit mode with Bruce Evans' patches, then you're limited only
by the physical memory size of your machine and the other processes
running.  If I can get my VM implementation working, then you'll only
be constrained by the size of your hard drive 8-).

>4)	I notice that a ANSI C compiler is being developed. However,
>	somebody has recently announced that GNU's gcc works for 
>	386 MINIX. Also, gcc has been producing 68k code for a long time.
>	Wouldn't it be easier to work with GNU to get gcc, gdb, g++ etc
>	integrated into the MINIX environment.

The trouble with GNU-anything is that it takes up a LOT of memory.
I'm currently running "bash" (GNU's "bourne-again shell") as my
default shell.  If I use gcc to compile anything bigger than hello.c,
then I'd better do it under /bin/sh instead because I'll run out of
memory otherwise.  And I'm running on a 4Mb machine.  The ANSI C
compiler is likely to be significantly smaller.

>Again, no offence to MINIX intended, I am basically wondering whether
>history is repeating itself with MINIX.

Yes, history is repeating itself, but that's not a bad thing.  At
least as far as pricing is concerned, P-H has been eminently fair.
There HAVE been complaints about their efficiency in SHIPPING, but
that's another story...