Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cica!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!flounder.cis.ohio-state.edu!mitroo From: mitroo@flounder.cis.ohio-state.edu (varun mitroo) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: A3000UX competition Keywords: Unix A3000 A3000UX NeXT Message-ID: <86470@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Date: 1 Dec 90 21:42:53 GMT References: <453@mathlab.math.ufl.EDU> <93075@aerospace.AERO.ORG> Sender: news@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Reply-To: varun mitroo Organization: Ohio State University Computer and Information Science Lines: 133 In a previous article, Robert Huebner writes a series of idiotic comments: > Of course, we all know "NeXT Guru" is synonymous with "Computer Geek" He sound like a geek himself. > |> If you don't like Open Look (from what I have seen Randy show me of > |> it, I don't much), you can replace it with parts of the MIT > |> distribution. You can get X stuff from Randy, but you will spend time > |> porting it. > Of course, since Open Look is leading the pack in terms of available > applications, I don't think this would be too wise. Of course. I am writing this on a SPARCstation SLC - one of hundreds here at OSU that are set up with X-Windows or NeWS. All the instructional computer science classes are using X-Windows, including the graphics classes. Of course, since we are not using Open Look, we are all hopelessly trailing the pack, as Mr. Huebner wisely states. Of course. > |> 4 Meg of core is a rediculous on a workstation now, just as the 3/50's > |> are. However, you can get cheap third-party memory. I would worry > |> about a UNIX vendor that tried to sell me a 4 Meg workstation. Just > |> how bad is the performance? What CPU/clock-speed are we talking here? > Commodore's philosophy has always been to sell the minimum and let the > user upgraade. I'd rather purchase it with 4Meg so I can get the best > price on the memory. If the memory comes installed you're sure to pay > more than market value (look at the recent debate re:A3000-25/50 and 25/100) 4 megs is obviously not enough. Naturally, everybody is going to want to go through the trouble of getting mail-order memory. Why doesn't Commodore just sell it with enough memory without putting a mark-up on the memory? > Also the A3000 has a fast hard disk (especially when compared to the > dreaded floptical drive) which make an excellent swap space. (Does the What does he have against NeXT? Almost nobody uses a NeXT optical drive for swap space. They all have hard drives. The optical drive is not slow, esp. when compared to a floppy. Running a NeXT with only an optical drive is very possible. I have a cube with 12megs ram and only optical, and I have far better performance than my Amiga with 2 floppies. > Recent specs released regarding this A2410 would certainly indicate > that it can compete. 1024 x 1024 x 256 is definitely workstation quality. > Granted, this is at additonal cost (Better multisync monitor + card price) > but I expect it to be less expensive than the NeXT color option. Of course Again, what does he have against NeXT? You can get a NeXTstation color with 68040, 12 megs RAM, 105 meg hard drive, 16" sony color monitor for $5700 edu. (due in early 1991). If amiga is selling their cheapest '030 Unix system for $4000, how can you possibly get a ~$2000 color monitor (such as the one with NeXT) and the A2410 card and still be cheaper? (Amiga has 8 megs RAM less and no ethernet) > |> 8 Meg + 105 Meg NeXTStation. You've heard me yap about it. Better > |> video than either of these (resolution-wise). 200 Megs of bundled > |> software that neither of these can touch. $3,500. Add $750 for > What so special about the bundled software? Half of it is PD or developer- > oriented stuff (so is every NeXT buyer a NeXT developer?) and the other The bundled software includes a word processor, mathematica, a librarian program, a good text editor, a dictionary, a thesaurus, an excellent programming environment (Interface Builder), and lots of really interesting developer software such as a ray tracer. A complete version of Tex, emacs, vi, etc. is also included. Version 1.0 also includes lisp and a database program (Sybase) that is unbundled in 2.0. > stuff is only useful to maybe 10% of people who use computers (Mathematica > is strictly for math mutants, sorry). Improv sounds nice, but do I really > need a NeXT to run a spreadsheet? And to get that, I have to plop down good > money within 1 month. I certainly won't see my machine until 1991. > Does NeXT still include the on-line dictionary and encyclopedia? I always > thought this was sort of "filler" - to make it look like the NeXT had gobs > of software, throw in some really BIG databases. What's Mr. Huebner's problem? Mathematica is really incredible (it takes some time to understand it, though). They are using Mathematica on macintoshes in the math department here. He probably is going to rave about Maple when it's released for the Amiga. Having the dictionary always available is very useful. The librarian program can access any kind of database. In addition to having the unix man pages and the NeXT manuals, NeXT also includes the entire works of Sheakespeare. If you can, try using a NeXT. See how quickly it finds the word "gleek" in every Shakespeare work. This is more an example of what can be done with the librarian program than actually of much use. But imagine what could be done if law books or medical references were used. Including Shakespeare is an extra with the software - you can remove it if you want (I did with mine). > |> want it that bad? Instead of (a) keeping your Amiga to do Amiga > |> things, and (b) getting a workstation to do workstation things? That - That's what I'm doing - > I wouldn't call it backward compatability. I think AmigaDOS has more to > offer than most UNIX/X applications. Especially in graphics and video > areas. A machine that only runs X-Windows/UNIX would be a real bore. Mr. Huebner obviously has no need to run unix. He likes AmigaDos, and is sore that when Commodore is trying to market the amiga as a unix machine, it is outmatched by workstations such as SUNs and NeXTs in terms of price and performance. > Their 4 Megabyte entry level system is great for people who don't need > that much memory to begin with. This point had already been discussed by Mr. Huebner earlier. 4 megs is not enough to run X-Windows. Of course, Mr. Huebner has no need for X-windows and he won't have a need for more than 4 megs. More than enough for AmigaDos, though. > But mainly, I've been waiting too long for the Amiga to start getting the kind > of good software and support that finally seems to be arriving. I certainly > don't want to jump ship now. The NeXT has very few NeXT-specific applications > available and I don't think this will be improving too quickly. It sounds > as if all the third-party support gained up to this point was purchased > rather than earned. This is Mr. Huebner's problem, and it's one that is understandable. It has been far too long overdue that the Amiga get the respect that is due. Amiga users can get very defensive and childish about their computers because of this. Mr Huebner, Try being objective. Suns are very good computers. They are fast, networkable, and are good at running windowed unix. The NeXT is similar, but not as fast, and it is geared more towards a personal computer market. There are impressive claims about the new NeXTstations, but that remains to be seen. Before making claims about computers, try sitting down at one and really seeing what can be done with it. Sit down with Improv on a NeXT. I think you might be impressed - I was. When Amiga officially releases a unix amiga, we'll see. Maybe commodore has something in store to match the strong bids from other companies in the very competitive workstation market. I hope so. Varun Mitroo mitroo@cis.ohio-state.edu