Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!crg5!lcline From: lcline@sequent.com (Larry Cline) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Cad?? Message-ID: Date: 4 Dec 90 18:13:28 GMT References: <4613@disk.UUCP> <2657@kirk.nmg.bu.oz> Sender: root@crg5.UUCP Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, Oregon Lines: 140 In-reply-to: cameron@kirk.nmg.bu.oz's message of 3 Dec 90 23:58:50 GMT In article <2657@kirk.nmg.bu.oz> cameron@kirk.nmg.bu.oz (Cameron Stevenson) writes: >From article <4613@disk.UUCP>, by specter@disk.UUCP (Byron Max Guernsey): >> I am currently attempting to convince a friend with ample fund that he needs >> to purchase an amiga 2000 or 3000. (he already has a 25 mghtz 386 ibm and a >> huge plotter...plos on big cardboard things). He uses his IBM for autocad. >[........] >> .......... Anybody out there use amiga for cad? >> >> Byron Guernsey > Of the CAD systems (and I am talking about the one's I've used on the Amiga here) I have used, I feel that XCAD is probably the most powerful. I have not had a chance to use DynaCAD. >Well Bryon, I am going to stick my neck out a little here..... > >I don't believe there is a CAD package for the Amiga that comes near AutoCAD >(and I don't even LIKE AutoCAD). I have used a number of packages on a number >of hardware platforms, and run a business consulting in CAD systems. I would >dearly love to see two more application areas addressed on the Amiga, namely >RDBMS, and CAD. Alas these areas are the ones that seem to take the most >number of man-years to develop (hence, I guess the reluctance to develop them) > I agree on this point, and it is a shame. I have seen XCAD pull up the shuttle drawing from XCAD and display it much more rapidly than most AutoCAD systems I have worked with (and that was on a 68000). BTW, I also consult on CAD and CAD Illustration. It seems I spend most of my time on AutoCAD. >To be fair to software devlopers, there are a few lingering problems with the >Amiga that need to resolved before it would make a successful platform for >these applications. As is continuously debated in this newsgroup, better >screen display/resolution is needed. The acceptable minimum nowadays is about >1000x800x32 on a 15" screen. Obviously (as with most things in life) the more >the better.... > Agree totally. >The other problem is that the hardware/OS is not considered stable enough for >these serious type applications. This is not to say that it is flakey, just >people I have spoken to don't THINK it is stable enough. > This is generally what I have found also. Also, if it does not work with DXF files then it won't even be considered. While I don't hear that many requests that it to full 3D, it would be nice. >I have looked at some of the CAD packages that are considered good on the >Amiga, and the overriding impression I get is that they are up to the standard >of PC based CAD packages of 3-5 years ago. They are certainly usable, but the >current crop of PC based packages offer so much more. > >Now I throw down the >gauntlet and challenge someone to develop a REALLY good CAD package for the >Amiga. The hardware is certainly fast enough, the OS is stable enough, and >the display issues will be resolved. Come on guys, how good are you? Here >are some of the features that should be included: > >1. full 3D, with the ability to define 2D specific view information (most real >world objects are 3D, but require 2D drawing representations of the object to >be built. The CAD system should be able to maintain the linkage between this >3D/2D data.) > >2. user modifiable interface (for that matter, user modifiable everything. >Perhaps a full C development environment built in, which gives access to the >supplied graphics primitives and user interface, but also allows extensions >to these for applications development - after all, I will want to use my CAD >package for totally different purposes than other people.) > Similar to the function of AutoLisp? >3. links to non-graphic data (maybe a relational database, maybe the whole >system is object-oriented. Either way, graphics alone are not enough to fully >describe objects.) > Saw an interestic system for Sun called 'Parametrics' (I think?) >4. translators to get data into/out of other systems. At the very least DXF and >IGES. > Actually I would like to see this done as a 'Universal Translator' which would be a separate program, but it should be done with the cooperation of all the companies involved in order to assure quality. >I recently posted a request for information about whether a development system >was avaliable that might be a good springboard for such a system, and have >got minimal response. I think there is a glaring void in available Amiga >applications in the CAD and RDBMS areas, and potentially an eager ready market. >Come on, how about doing something about it?? Any thoughts? > >Cameron Stephenson ph +61 75 951220 >Bond University >Gold Coast Australia Part of the problem I have seen is the perceptions of the developers. They seem to forget that there are 3 types of CAD. There is Design (PCB and stuff like that), object creation for the plethora of 3D animators, and Drafting. On other systems the Drafting came first and the rest evolved from that. It seems on the Amiga, they are trying to do it 'bass ackwards'. Of course, this is an effect of marketing. The Drafting part of CAD is perceived as a minor market on the Amiga unless you can use it to design objects for your animations. Most of the CAD systems on the Amiga I have seen and used are too slow or too hard to use (as far as the interface goes) or just too primitive. But a lot of them have had interesting features. The ability of DynamicCAD to plot MilSpec Leroy Fonts was great for me. It made it look like I had hand- lettered the drawings. The speed of XCAD is nice, particularly when zooming or panning. It smokes most of the AutoCAD systems I have used. Unfortunately, when I tried to create the same drawings on XCAD that I created on AutoCAD, it either was a lot more difficult because of functional deficiencies or differences. For example, when I tried to fillet two non-parallel lines, instead of extending the lines so that it could fillet them to the given radius, IT MOVED THEM! They were already where I wanted them. I just wanted them connected. The Aegis products were both too slow and too primitive, but did have some features from paint type programs that I liked. IntroCAD is just not up to my requirements (as is just about anything that says 'Intro'). Unfortunately I haven't seen UltraCAD. Well, if any developers want me to help them add real-world functionality to the Mechanical CAD packages I would be willing. So let's here it. Larry -- Larry Cline lcline@sequent.sequent.com lcline@crg8.sequent.com ".sig! Contractors don't need no stinkin' .sig!!!"