Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!agate!lightning.Berkeley.EDU!felixh From: felixh@lightning.Berkeley.EDU (Felix Hack) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games Subject: Re: Harpoon...ASW Message-ID: <1990Nov30.004619.21615@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: 30 Nov 90 00:46:19 GMT Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator) Organization: ucb Lines: 43 The question of whether standoff torpedoes with non-nuclear warheads are really useful is not, to my mind, settled. It just seems very difficult to track an enemy sub so precisely at 30 miles as to drop a homing torp with a detection range of only 500 yards (for Mk46, maybe double for Mk50) directly on top. Note that the US SeaLance carrying Mk 50 was cancelled; I don't believe SSN16's torpedo is so great either. I think real torpedoes almost always accelerate to full speed by final approach to their targets. The extra noise doesn't matter because ASW torps are all active homers anyway. The Harpoon boardgame doesn't treat this accurately to save on record-keeping and keep things simple (but in Naval warfare I don't like simple). The computer game follows suit and seems to use the same system: Dual speed torps have two ranges and two speeds. If you fire outside the smaller range the torp runs at the slower speed all the way. If you fire inside the smaller range it goes high speed all the way. The on-line torpedo data doesn't show this, but the database reflects this and I've seen it while playing. This sets up some absurd situations. There are some really slow torps in the game, which if fired at long range can be easily outrun. For exampl,e if the fearsome Type 65 is fired outside 27 miles it goes at 30 knots. Just turn around and run away. Even at 20 knots it only catches up 10 miles per hour. Another bad one is if you fire just inside the 'fast' range, you don't get the choice to shoot slow (like you can in the boardgame) so you'll be sure of catching a relatively slow target. Sure, the torp is fast, but with only a little running the target is out of range. The game does not distinguish between ships of the same class; all Trafalgar class subs get a 10% quieting bonus, even though the lead ship (Trafalgar) doesn't have the shrouded propulsor. Missile launch rates from Aegis cruisers seem low in the game, but they're a bit off in the boardgame too. Has anyone seen the SAM-turnaround maneuver? This is a pretty bad programming choice in which SAMs that are roughly as fast as their targets fired not directly head-on will fly a pure pursuit path, often reversing course 180 deg to fly generally TOWARDS the ship that launched the SAM! If the SAM isn't faster it fails to catch its target altogether and thus automatically misses. So much for massed SM2 volleys knocking down AS-6 going for the carrier . . . . I've read that guided missiles use some more intelligent schemes to fly lead-intercept courses. That's how it's done in SimCan's Grey Seas Grey Skies, and you don't get flaky SAM flight. Felix