Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!dmshq!com50!pai!erc From: erc@pai.UUCP (Eric Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.windows.x Subject: Re: Not impressed with MacX Summary: Too many programs use 3 buttons Message-ID: <1557@pai.UUCP> Date: 30 Nov 90 14:51:17 GMT References: <9011290206.AA00343@lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU> <1990Nov29.110947@springer.Apple.COM> Organization: Boulware Technologies, Inc., Burnsville, MN Lines: 73 Problem: The Macintosh has a one-button mouse, but far too many X programs require a three-button mouse. That's also why PC X terminal emulators and HP (both of which extensively use two-button mice) emulate the "middle" mouse button (button 2) by having the user hold down both physical mouse buttons at once. Der mouse, who usually gives great advice, doesn't want to emulate "missing" mouse buttons: In article <1990Nov29.110947@springer.Apple.COM>, x@springer.Apple.COM (Steve Peters) writes: > In article <9011290206.AA00343@lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU>, > mouse@LIGHTNING.MCRCIM.MCGILL.EDU writes: > |> I wouldn't simulate them. I would have the X server provide a > pointer > |> device with only one button. That's what you have, after all. > |> > |> Kludges to support broken clients that blindly assume the presence > of > |> (at least) three buttons on the pointer device only ensure that said > |> broken clients don't get fixed. Unfortunately, from xterm on, just about every client that uses the mouse uses more than one button. Most Athena wdiget-based programs, such as xterm, use button 1 to select and button 2 to paste (they could probably do without button 3). Most window managers, including twm, use more than one mouse button for various purposes. Twm also has an extensive set of Meta-button functions--although twm is much better than uwm in this regard. (Mwm seems better in using mouse buttons.) Now, I know all this can be configured, but it's a mighty pain. And, just try to explain all this mess to new users. Ugh. I agree that the programs should be changed to provide simpler interfaces that use the mouse in a less confusing manner (new users typically have a hard time determining which mouse buttons do what). But, will these X clients change? Probably not. Even if I were to volunteer :-), I have a feeling that the X Consortium has a lot more say about programs like xterm and the Athena widget set than I do. Same with the OSF for Motif and AT&T/Sun for Open Look. The bottom line: we're stuck with three-button mice. If you don't have a three-button mouse (which I don't when using a PC as an xterm under Hummingbird's software), you have to emulate a three-button mouse, or else you won't be nearly as productive using X, as you would be using a three-button mouse. ("Won't be nearly as productive" is a euphemism for "life will be hell.") > We thought about this, briefly, very briefly. A quick poll of our field > convinced us that we we would never again sell an X product if we were > to adopt such an approach. The hard, ugly, X reality ( ;-) ) is dressed > with 3 buttons. > Steve Peters > X Project Leader > Apple Computer, Inc. > peters@apple.apple.com By the way, with Macintosh emulations of X, I've had a much better time using the large Apple keyboard, often called the "Saratoga" keyboard (named after the aircraft carrier because of the large size). I didn't like my arrow keys being eaten up since I use text editors a lot. (The standard Mac scheme was that the <- and -> keys, I believe, act as mouse keys, while [SpecialKey]<- and [SpecialKey]-> gets you the real arrow keys. I personally like arrow keys that act as arrow keys.) The "Saratoga" keyboard looks a lot like a PC-style keyboard, although many Mac folks would hate to admit that. Have fun, -Eric -- Eric F. Johnson phone: +1 612 894 0313 BTI: Industrial Boulware Technologies, Inc. fax: +1 612 894 0316 automation systems 415 W. Travelers Trail email: erc@pai.mn.org and services Burnsville, MN 55337 USA