Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!emory!att!rutgers!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: joy@oak.circa.ufl.edu (Shelly Felton) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: I am Lost Message-ID: Date: 30 Nov 90 09:41:22 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Florida CIRCA VAX Cluster Lines: 61 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , bradley@brahms.udel.edu (William B Bradley) writes: > I believe that one is obligated to give to the hungry until one is >hungry himself. One should give to the naked until naked himself. One should >sacrifice of ones self until death. I feel for you because I at one time held a similar belief. I should point out that if you truly sacrificed yourself unto death you should already be dead by now. Your ideal is very eloquently stated, but I must ask Are you hungry now? Are you naked now? "Love your neighbor as yourself" demands that you first "love" yourself by attending to the needs of your life so that you'll be ABLE to love your neighbor! Scripture says (paraphrase) "If somebody asks for you shirt give him your coat also." But realize that very soon one is liable to run out of shirts AND cloaks and have to beg from somebody else. I think the admirable generous and giving ideals you espouse could possibly be tempered with the scriptural advice of " don't put a stumbling block in your brother's way." If by continual and selfless giving of either money OR material possessions you allow a person to avoid using the gifts God gave them to get their own money or material possessions, then you are putting a stumbling block in their way, no matter how selfless your OWN motives may be, see? (Thinking specifically of giving to panhandlers, not to the church...sorry for digressing!!) I also think you should take another look at the word "obligated" in your statement...God's grace is a gift ..."by Grace are you saved, by faith, and not of works lest anyone should boast." I don't think giving is "required" of Christians, but if we choose to follow Christ's example, giving is there for us to incorporate into our lives. You said also: > She believes that since the Bible says we are to tithe, she is safe >giving a set percentage of her money to the church, and when I say that it >satisfies me to give more of myself, she reminds me of the dangers of writing >one's own scripture. I wish I had my Bible with me at this moment to look this up, but isn't tithing an Old Testament rule? A person would be "safe" in Christ's love even if they didn't tithe at all. Doesn't the Lord love people who don't have enough money to tithe with? I think you should give as much as the Lord calls you to give, NOT out of guilt which I believe to be a tool of Satan to cloud the fact that God's grace through Jesus Christ is a gift of mercy, not a reward for our actions. And hark to the warning in Mark (I think...rats, I wish I had my Bible here!) where the apostle warns of doing good things on the street corners "like the hypocrits do," in order to *appear* righteous. The giving you do in God's name should be between you and the Lord. > I feel right here, but would like to continue friendly relations with >my friend, talk to me. For what it's worth I hold more with the belief you describe than to the practice of tithing, in which there is a danger of the meaning and purpose of giving to be forgotten. But don't forget that a major part of Christ's teaching have to do with forgiveness...so if you wanna continue being friends maybe you should give a little bit of that, and don't hold a difference of opinion against her... -- Shelly Felton Internet: joy@maple.decnet%pine.circa.ufl.edu Direct from University of Florida campus, Gainesville, FL Standard Disclaimer: I don't speak for UF and UF don't speak for me.