Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cica!news.cs.indiana.edu!rutgers!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: joseph@cs.albany.edu (Jody Richardson) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: grail message question Message-ID: Date: 4 Dec 90 06:07:50 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 77 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Mark, I think that the scriptures you use to support your position are questionable at best. (My apologies if this has been hashed before. I will be succinct with my opinions.) Any reference to Elijah as support for reincarnation seems suspect since 2 Kings records that he was taken up without having to die. Richard O'Keefe deals with this quite adaquately in an earlier posting. > "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till > all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, > but my words shall not pass away. (Matt 24:34-35, Mark 13:30-31) > > We now know that Jesus was not referring to the *physical* > generation of that day, so therefore He could only have > intended His words in the *spiritual* sense, as was so often > the case when He spoke. How about *metaphorical*? My Bible includes a footnote that replaces "generation" with "race". > Or finally, let's take a look at the Revelation: > > "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple > of my God, and he shall go no more out..." (Rev 3:12) > > A reasonable interpretation of this passage is in the sense of the > cycle of reincarnations, which ends only with the complete maturity of > the spirit. Once a spirit has attained to such maturity, he is alloted > a place in paradise and remains there forever. His reincarnations on > earth come to an end. He has become one of those who "have washed their > robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev 7:14) This again sounds like a stretch. How about, "go out no more..." from the presence (temple) of God? That is, in the sense of rebeling or sinning or maybe spreading the Word or... Finally, WRT the man born blind, our moderator has offered another "reasonable interpretation" for our consideration. I think the best point is made when you write (regarding Nicodemus): > I hadn't considered this particular point hitherto, but then > the truth of reincarnation is so clear to me that I no longer > feel the need to try to prove/disprove its correctness to > myself! This quite clearly puts you in the position of having either 1) to invent a senario to explain an apparent(!) contradiction (as you did quite interestingly WRT Nicodemus) or 2) to simply reject it without explanation. I don't say this in a derogatory manner. I think we all have to do this in order to cope with some fairly inocuous life-events. And therefore much more so with what one considers to be religous truth. I appreciate your candor. I have never met (electronically or otherwise) someone who used the Bible as support for reincarnation. I still disagree with you but, hey, life would be boring otherwise. :-) > I hope I have answered your questions to your satisfaction. My curiousity is nearly sastisfied. I have not yet seen your response to Hebrews 9:27. If I have missed it or you don't care to continue this on-line, I would appreciate a mail message. I'm interested in finding out whether your response is of type 1) or 2) from my Contradiction Resolution Strategies above. Could you (or someone) mail me the real name of the grail messages as I negleted to save the earlier posting that contained it. Jody Richardson | Why is "abbreviated" joseph@cs.albany.edu | such a long word?