Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Preaching to the dead? Message-ID: Date: 4 Dec 90 05:33:10 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston -- Department of Mathematics Lines: 53 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu [This is a discussion of I Pet 4:6, which talks about Christ having preached "to them that are dead." At first glance, it seems to imply that they got a second chance after dead. David believes that because it says "are dead" and not "were dead", it is not talking about people who had physically died. I pointed out that this distinction isn't present in the Greek, which simply says "the gospel was preached to the dead." --clh] This is an interesting point. Both the KJV quoted by Frank and the NIV I quoted use the verb 'are' in the present tense. Unfortunately I know zilch about greek, so I have to rely on the expertise of others. This is what the Concordia Self-Study Bible says about this verse: "The word "now" does not appear in the Greek, but it is necessary to make it clear that the preaching was done not after these people had died, but while they were still alive. (There will be no opportunity for people to be saved after death; see Heb. 9:27)." They don't even discuss the present tense verb 'are', so I presume that is noncontroversial. I can try to look this up in Eerdmans's Pulpit Commentary, which which will have an exegesis, but my opportunity to do so is limited. Perhaps others on the net will help me out here? Incidentally, Heb. 9:27, 28 says: "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgement, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." I wouldn't say this is a rock-solid proof text, but it is supportive of the statement above. David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran. My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston. [I don't think I agree that the present tense verb "are" is uncontroversial. It's not there at all in Greek. The Greek simply says "the dead". And that's the way NRSV translates it. "For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, although they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does." Note that Concordia's comment is primarily a doctrinal one, namely that if you translated it in the obvious way, it would conflict with their understanding of Heb. As you say, their understanding of Heb, while a reasonable interpretation, is not necessarily the only possible one. It could be that there's a nuance in the Greek that isn't obvious, but what it looks like to me is that KJV and NIV have adopted a reading primarily to avoid a conclusion that they consider unacceptable. By the way, I take 4:6 as a reference to 3:19. --clh]