Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: YZKCU@cunyvm.bitnet (Yaakov Kayman) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A Question Message-ID: Date: 6 Dec 90 08:43:40 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 58 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) says: > ... >First, there is no such thing as a life that qualifies you for salvation. >Paul is very explicit about telling us that even Abraham was justified >by faith and not by works. ... >I'm not quite sure what you intended to say here, but what you said can >be construed as saying that other religions will get you to Heaven. >This is totally false. Anyone who has knowledge of Christianity and >then chooses to follow ..., Judaism, ..., or whatever, does not have >salvation and will be eteranlly damned. The key here is the extent of a >person's knowlege. And don't forget, as Christians, it is our responsi- >bility to teach others this knowledge. (I'll leave it to Buddhists, Moslems, etc. to give the views of their own belief systems. My religion is JUDAISM.) Realizing this is soc.religion.CHRISTIAN, and that the above views are presumably all legitimately part of Christianity, please allow me none- theless to say that I, as a Jew, find them to be an outrage as well as utterly false. Understand that in Judaism, practice is the most important thing (what I believe Christians would call "works?"), salvation is an alien concept unknown to us (and unwanted, Elizabeth!), and that Jews view the above attitudes as manifestations of the hatred (not of love, Elizabeth!) which has led to persecution of Jews BY CHRISTIANS (or people calling themselves such) throughout the ages, and continues to result in the obnoxious attempts by certain persons to jam their unwelcome ideas down unwilling Jewish throats. We are beginning to lose our gag reflexes from having these unwelcome ideas repeatedly shoved down our unwilling Jewish throats. You have done this in the forum of soc.culture.JEWISH, and in unsolicited and unwelcome private e-mail to various individuals, including myself. We Jews have repeatedly told you that we view these activities as nothing less than manifestations of Jew-hatred, and have repeatedly complained to you to stop. You have not. A victim, not a perpetrator, is the one to say what is and is not hatred. Intentions matter not at all to us in light of these actions. We do know infinitely more than you about what Jew-hatred is. Do stop these practices now. By the way, to those who would preach of love vs. alleged "sternness" of G-d, the Jewish way states that the righteous of ALL the Nations of the World will have a share in the World to Come (what Christians call "Heaven?"). Righteousness in the above statement refers to observance of the Seven Noachide Commandments which G-d gave to ALL the Nations of the World. Yaakov K. -------- Yaakov Kayman (212) 903-3666 City University of New York BITNET: YZKCU@CUNYVM "Lucky is the shepherd, and lucky his flock Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU about whom the wolves complain"